Please share your thoughts on this Best Practice.

I am amazed at the amount of builders that do not offer or suggest a structured wiring system during the building process. It can be another source of profit for the builder, but instead, they tend to get an electrician to do the work and take the profit (if the electrician even does a structured wire system). Structured Wiring can be a source of income, give the homeowner greater flexibility and give them added value to that home. Why are you builders scared of this trend?

I hear you, J. I started seeing articles on structured wiring systems in all the building magazines I get several years ago and started putting them in everything I've built since. I think the biggest reasons they aren't more common is 1. Most people I encounter have no idea what they are or can do, and 2. There aren't many good places to buy the components reasonably priced and very little info on how to do a system well. I gave up trying to find a cheaper source for the components so I buy the P&S stuff at Menards and basically figured out how to do a system from the enclosed instructions. At five bucks a whack for the RJ45 recepticles and equally stiff prices for every little part and piece, you can sink a lot of time and bucks into something most people don't even appreciate.

I install structured wiring in all of my spec homes standard. I'd say the majority of people don't know what it is but in the future it is going to add value to their home as more folks get educated on it.

I hear you MONZ. I am an installer/retailer in central Wisconsin. My business comes from an area about 100 miles east of me (Fond du Lac), because the structured wiring trend has not become a standard for homes around here. How do I show the local builders the benefit? At what point did you guys realize the positive effect on your business?

quote:

Originally posted by Monz:
I hear you, J. I started seeing articles on structured wiring systems in all the building magazines I get several years ago and started putting them in everything I've built since. I think the biggest reasons they aren't more common is 1. Most people I encounter have no idea what they are or can do, and 2. There aren't many good places to buy the components reasonably priced and very little info on how to do a system well. I gave up trying to find a cheaper source for the components so I buy the P&S stuff at Menards and basically figured out how to do a system from the enclosed instructions. At five bucks a whack for the RJ45 recepticles and equally stiff prices for every little part and piece, you can sink a lot of time and bucks into something most people don't even appreciate.

Hmmm ..... good question. Probably the approach to take with small builders is to offer them a complete installed system, educate them as to what it is and what it can do and make them comfortable that it will be trouble free or that you will be there for any problems. The last thing a builder wants to bring into his life is a new responsibility for a technically complicated system that he doesn't fully understand and has no good idea how to fix when his homeowner calls on Saturday evening screaming that his TVs suddenly don't work.

quote:

Originally posted by Monz:
Hmmm ..... good question. Probably the approach to take with small builders is to offer them a complete installed system, educate them as to what it is and what it can do and make them comfortable that it will be trouble free or that you will be there for any problems. The last thing a builder wants to bring into his life is a new responsibility for a technically complicated system that he doesn't fully understand and has no good idea how to fix when his homeowner calls on Saturday evening screaming that his TVs suddenly don't work.

If a builder tells you this he's either doesn't know jack or he's BSing you. I am a builder, and I,lke most builders, was installing CATV, and phone lines in my homes before 'structured wiring' was around. What I'm saying is that we builders have been putting wires in homes for a long time and with the advent of structured wiring we have a chance to install something that is more reliable, easier to trouble shoot, and something that can be customized for each client we sell to. What you installers need to do, is offer a basic parkage to builders in your area for a reasonable price, then install it cleanly, neatly and on time. You do this and I think you'll find more business than you can handle.

I find that to be a more reasonable and understandable answer. So, as a builder...what is a "reasonable structured wiring package" include for you? My standard packages include 2-RG6(CATV/SAT) and 2-Cat5 (telco/network) to every bedroom, kitchen, den, LR, a 1 1/4 flex conduit to attic/crawlspace area, a 24" enclosure (up to 6 CATV and Telco locations) and dual RG-6 to cable demarc and dual Cat5 to telco demarc. Let 'er rip guys/gals...my feelings are not hurt here. Just trying to hear things from another point of view!

quote:

Originally posted by JB:
I find that to be a more reasonable and understandable answer. So, as a builder...what is a "reasonable structured wiring package" include for you? My standard packages include 2-RG6(CATV/SAT) and 2-Cat5 (telco/network) to every bedroom, kitchen, den, LR, a 1 1/4 flex conduit to attic/crawlspace area, a 24" enclosure (up to 6 CATV and Telco locations) and dual RG-6 to cable demarc and dual Cat5 to telco demarc. Let 'er rip guys/gals...my feelings are not hurt here. Just trying to hear things from another point of view!

Sounds like a good basic package to me. However, I install a bit more than that. I install a 5 channel surround perwire in the family room (people are going to do this eventually anyway so I've got it covered) and I also install a 2 channel audio pre-wire which will run speakers in the Master, patio, living room, and dining area.

Also, I hope you are installing CAT5E and not regular cat5 cable.

I also have several levels of AV equipment worked out with my AV installer that I can offer my clients. My clients often want all the goodies (plasma, speakers, recievers, wall audio controls, etc) finainced into their house note and I do that as well.

I do use Cat5e as standard, as everyone should now. I also try to use as much jacketed bundled wire as possible. It is a little more expensive, but it provides a cleaner install as well as giving the wire a better chance of not being damaged during the rest of the building process.

As far as a prewire for AV goes, I consider that an upgrade. Whole house audio, Cat6, surround/theater, wireless networks, in-wall speakers, plasma/LCD, security, remote IR and intercom systems are all upgrades in my book.

I can't see offering a 5.1 system in a standard package if you don't know what the entertainment level your customer may be (placement of the TV/furniture or in-wall vs in-ceiling).

I understand your prewire of the two channel, but again this runs into whole house audio that can have too many variables as far as equipment placement goes. Therefore...upgrade.

I am also the AV guy, but I have not thought of providing AV packages for the builders.

My spec house plans pretty much have two walls available for TV viewing and I have cable/conduit in each. The 5.1 surround/home audio wires are rolled up neatly and are attached to the roof trusses in the attic ready for use when/if the client wants to install it.


Mmmm... home audio...

You mean, as long as the equipment the home owner purchases works with your wiring design. The controlers for each room still would have to be pulled and run back to a central wiring closet.

The wire type is also dependant on the end product used. The wire typed for the Russound CA and the Russound ABUS are two different types of runs. Speaker wire to a wiring closet for the CA and to the controller for the ABUS.

You are telling me you run Cat5 and speaker wire to each potential controller location, as well as another speaker wire to your central wiring closet?

There is a difference in "standard package" for a builder and your choice for a spec home. Yes, you are decreasing the cost for the homeowner if he/she wants to add to the system you designed. However, you are wasting time and money by placing a wire that may not be used. That is why I place a flexible conduit. It allows the homewoner/installer to pull wire without having to cut open the walls if they want to add in the future, but it also gives flexibility in equipment placement and technology chages. If the homeowner chooses to have a separate closet for AV, another conduit goes there as well.

Upgrades and change orders are where the builders make the profits with little effort. Whole house and surround...upgrades!

Sounds good. Structured wiring is something I am going to continue to install in every house I build. Even if it costs me less profit.

We are in Washington state and before we decided to build our own home we looked at the homes of the larger builders in the area and have yet to see structured wiring installed. Even custom builder we approached with our plans seemed not to want to get into it and would rather let us handle it. We are subbing our home ourselves and although we don't know all the possiibilities we do know enough to know that it adds to the value of the home to have it there and hopefully we can learn all its applications. I am told that the Livitron System might be the most user friendly system but if anyone has a better thought please.....

Mitch

Mitch,
As an installer/dealer, I tend to mix and match for the best "fit". I do use Leviton face plates in almost every install. The reason is that the electricians will install outlets and switches that will then match your face plates. If you can install without it being obvious, you did good. When it comes to the panel, I like the OnQ/Greyfox line-up. There is a better choice of options and the modules seem to fit better than most others. In either case, you won't go wrong!

Just my view point, not exactly a proven thoery!

PLEASE HELP!!!!

I am not a builder. With that said, I just bought a house in Feb. 2006. The builder said it came with structered wiring. He installed a Leviton panel that only houses a single cable(RG-6) wire into the panel and 8 rg-6 outputs to each room. He also installed 1 incoming phone line (cat 5e) with 9 outgoing lines for the rooms. There is an outlet inside the box without any hookups. When I was purchasing the house, I saw in his model home audio/video/telephone etc. I mentioned this to him, he said "Don't worry, when the time comes we'll put in a biger box. Needless to say, I think I was suckered. He did not put any audio/video wiring or plates in the house ...anywhere...I even told him I was putting a home theatre in the family room. He went so far as to tell his closet shelf maker to put in shelves in the closet to the family room that would support the weight of components, yet...no wiring to this closet either. Is this considered structured wiring or was/am I just a fool? Also can the cat5e wiring be used for audio/video...he did put cat5e wiring to each phone outlet? My e-mail is axe29301@aol.com, please give em some sound advice. Thank you...

Structured wiring is a frequent buzzword in construction these days. This wiring could be minimal or very over-wired. I don't believe there is a particular description as to how far it goes. Mostly structured includes phone lines cat3 or greater, tv cable (rg6) and computer lines (5e or 6). Additionally it could included a home entertainment system, intercom, wiring for alarms, video cameras throughout the house etc. The best is to have flex conduit to a centralized (homerun) panel (much like our service entrance is laid out) so the cables can be replaced easily as the technology advances.
I would suppose a home entertainment system requires cabling that is dependent upon the quality of the system and particular placement of the homeowner. This is not easily determined and would probably be considered extra.

Oden347- If I were you I would want to know exactly what was installed (number and quality of cables), where was it installed (every location of every type of connection) and adequate labeling in the main panel rather than just saying the house has "structural wiring".

Thanks handyman78-I think I was suckered as there is no labeling, no indication of the number or quality of the cables etc...In his "Spec Page" he just calls what he installed for me structured wiring. There are also no audio/video capabilities, Guess I was just suckered in. Thank you again....