What do you think of this Video?

Tankless water heaters are the way to go.

The graphic shows a hacksaw cutting the copper pipe. You should use a tubing cutter rather than a hacksaw. The video also refers to a "dirt leg". This is commonly called a "drip leg" but this might be a regional thing. Has anyone else heard this called a dirt leg?

More people are using copper or flexible gas piping instead of black iron for tubing. What is everyone else out there using?

I love the idea of tankless water heaters but would need information on Electric type. Is this a possibility. Would I still save on utility bills?

As far as I have seen, they only make the gas version of the tankless water heaters right now. They are working on the electric ones though. I am not sold on these things yet. They are large and can not be mounted under a sink or in a cabinet. You also have to consider the size and cost of additional gas piping. These things use a lot gas. I would also be concerned that without a thermostatic mixing valve, the possiblity of scalding. I would also like to see how much energy is actually saved compared to a traditional water heater. However, the idea is good, but wait for future generations to come around.

HI all.
I did some research, I did find that Bosch and several other companies supply electric versions. (internet "tankless hot water" or ( instant hot water" ) The problem I saw was the requirement for a double power feed. In other words... It will take two dedicated hot water circuit breakers for the units to be connected to. In "new" construction this should not be a problem.. In retro fit situations you will need to verify availibity of a second power circut to be connected to the heater.
Other that this they do seam to be the way to go...
QUESTION .... Does any one have a pay back time estimate for the additional up front costs of a tamkless unit ?

LArry

Drip legs are for wet piping applications and dirt legs are commonly referred to with Gas piping applications. Both however serve the same purpose.

I did a cost benefit analysis by subtracting the cost of a regular 40 gal hot water heater from the cost of a tankless model. The difference in price I compared to the sticker value of how much it costs to run a regular hot water heater and a the gas usage of a tankless. The difference in price would take almost 12 years to pay for it's self. Of course after that it's a good deal but I don't plan on being in my current house another 12 years and as far as getting your money back out of it as an investment, you can't raise the selling price of your house a couple of thousand dollars because you have one of these units.
Logically it's a good long term idea if you plan on staying in your house but financially I'm not convinced it's a good idea.
Believe it or not I knew all this before I installed one on my house because it helps save energy and I'm all for that.

I ran across a pretty good article the other day in pmengineer magazine, and yes, they are online at www.pmengineer.com and it is this month's feature article.

After a little more research myself on this hot topic, the heating element, whether gas or electric is triggered by pressure drop (flow). The flow is restricted so that the water may come up to temperature before exiting the faucet. Consequently, if you need a lot of flow, i.e, shower etc, the size of the tankless water heater will be increased or at least the KW. KW is the key factor here or btu input if you are using gas. To run a shower and sink you are looking at minimum around 50KW, or 175,000 btu input. To compound matters if both are used at the same time, you will lose either temperature or pressure or both.

There are pro's and con's to the tankless heaters. Gas is the better than electric hands down. Most electric require 60A/240V power source which is a sizable load in a house especially if you are already close to needing to go up a service size. The more water being used in a house the less the quality. Shower, dishwasher, washing machine and a sink running at one time will not work as efficiant as regular tank heater. I suggest one tank for kitchen and laundry areas and another for bathrooms. The tankless electric heaters can take a toll on old electrical panels also from the load it pulls, do not short yourself on a quality panel and breaker to run this system.

White teflon tape should NOT be used!! Only pipe dope or teflon tape that is approved for gas piping should be used. Also, use only lead free solder, such as Silvabrite 100, which is a silver bearing solder. These water heaters are more frequently referred to as On-demand water heaters, and work great if propperly sized and installed. A "tankless water heater" can also be a copper coil that is inserted into a boiler, which I would never reccomend due to mineral build-up and eventual failure. If you heat with an oil fired boiler, I would reccomend an indirect water heater such as the Superstor Ultra, which is constructed of marine-grade stainless steel. Also, be sure to check for gas leaks with a bubble solution immediately after turning on the gas.

The payback time is where it gets interesting. I have a unit that is just about 5 years old (a Bosch aquastar 125X), and there are some maintenance items that are required every 2 years or so (the water valve), and after 5 years needs to be replaced (the water valve). Let me just say these things are great; they have been around forever in Europe (primarily because of space and utility expense), and when they work they work fine. However, because these things are not ingrained into our culture, finding a reputable service technician (most are HVAC guys, NOT plumbers) to work on it is frustrating, as well as no access to parts locally. I spent over $350.00 recently, mostly in what I call "troubleshooting" time because the folks who worked on it, while very reputable with HVAC, fumbled a bit for an issue we were having, and in turn was on the phone with CEC (controlled energy, the distributor of the Bosch units) for quite some time. I would have been stuck with an even higher bill, but since I was observing all of this, I had them knock off time, to be fair. So, I wouldn't worry so much about payback with savings (which will take a while, considering a new one can run over $1K installed), but make sure that you have a reputable service technician(s); I live in Dallas, and still only about 3-4 companies work on these (some better than others). Food for thought, not to be discouraging, but a valuable lesson for me.

Also, mine runs on batteries, which is not common any longer; they have been upgraded due to many service calls related to no hot water, but the batteries were dead (the heater works off an electronic ignitor, similar to one you see on a gas grill, albeit much more sophisticated). Food for thought.

Building a new home and did some investigation about the tankless water heater. We having been referring them to on demand water heaters out this way. In several conversations with our energy company and others the answer is if you have natural gas then they are more efficient to run. If you have to go electric, although you are not heating water all day, the amount of electricity used when you do make that demand for hot water to get that 140 deg.for radiant, for example makes it totally inefficent costwise.

Mitch

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