We are in a situation where we may need to replace our oil tank from an underground tank to indoors. But since we are at this point~ I am wondering if it might be better to convert to gas? (we allready have a pipe to the house but it is not tapped into)I know that oil is considered safer in certain ways. However, I am concerned about the environment and also long term dependance on oilmight impact the sale of the house in the future. So~my question is what do you all think or recommend out there. Should we stay with oil, or convert to gas? I really need advice, so I am hoping to get some responses. Thanks!!
Posts: 2 | Location: nj | Registered: 01 November 2005
Definitely Convert to Gas!If it is a fan assisted heating system you won't have to add anything.You can use your existing duct system after cleaning them. Electric is cheapest to buy but to run it's pretty expensive.But in the long rum it's the most expensive. You'll pay dearly to have all the radiant heaters running!! If you have gas piped already the hard part is almost done.We do alot of conversions and the gas line to the house usually is the most costly. I work for a company that weatherizes income eligible residents here in Wisc. The Gas furnaces we put in run about 94.1% to 97.0% Efficient and compared to oil burn extremely clean Carbon monoxide levels are extremely low around 18-20 ppm (acceptable levels are anything below 75ppm) If they are properly installed..Sealed combustion furnaces here run about $800-900 dollar range standard.These exhaust straight out of the house thru pvc not thru the chimney's which could have leaks. The matinenece on an oil burner alone could cost alot of money if it's done every heating season (like it's supposed to be )yearly.Not to mention the health concerns,enviroment and last the pocket book. Test: Have your your oil burner tested first for carbon monoxide,exhaust (flue gas reading of 2-3 is acceptable)and efficiency they should run about 80% if it is well maintained. Then make your decision. As far as the tank it's best to burn it off,cap it off and seal it up and leave it if it's to costly to move. Sometimes the smell remains for awhile though even if the tank is removed from all the years it was used.But have it tested and I'll bet you'll find gas or propane is cheaper and more efficient,safer and healthier in the long run.
Convert to electric. It can be the cheapest form of heat and has been for several years already here in Pennsylvania.
Electric radiant baseboard with individually controlled room thermostats can provide a better control of your heating needs at less cost than oil or gas.
Electric is cheaper to install and far cheaper to maintain. In fact there should be about 0% maintenance costs with electric over its lifetime compared to the costly annual and ongoing maintenance charges for either oil or gas.
I'm is the process of reconverting my house from a 94% efficiency 7 year old natural gas hot water baseboard system to 100% efficiency baseboard electric because the immediate savings will be about 20% this year alone.
My gas bill for September over that of the previous year is 70% higher and we haven't even begun to heat yet.
Of course it will depend upon your electric utility, but here in my area, electric has been the heat of choice for nearly 5 years running and it's time to take another look at electric heat as the best all about energy source for your home.
No expensive boilers or funances. No expensive chimneys or flues. No maintenance fees. Cheap repairs when necessary. More flexible heating control.
In the energy race, electric is like the tortoise who by steady progress has taken the lead.....
First off, let me clear up some things about the two previous replies..
A new gas furnace installed in your home is not going to cost you $800-$900. Depending on the size of your home and the type of furnace, it will most likely cost around $2500 - $4500. If someone does try to sell you a gas furnace for $800-$900 you better run the other way!
You can't make a straight apples-to-apples comparison of gas and electric efficiency ratings. All electric heat is 100% efficient, but you need to realize that the heat content of electricity is less than gas. That's why a 94% gas furnace can cost less to operate than an 100% electric furnace. Basically it takes more electricity to generate heat than it does gas. Also, you most likely need to have a 200 AMP electrical service to even consider changing to electric heat.
With whatever type of heating source you choose to go with, yearly maintenance will still be needed (even with electric heat).
Also, 90% efficient and better gas furnaces do not vent through a chimney or flue. They vent on PVC plastic that can go outside a sidewall of your home or through any point in your roof.
Also, with any heating source you can have cheap and expensive repairs. However, most heating systems (except oil) you can purchase a 10 year extended parts and labor warranty that will give some peace of mind.
Finally, with any heating system .. gas, oil, or electric you can control the heating in different rooms. The industry term is called "Zoning" and it can provide great energy savings and comfort (but it will cost you quite a bit more).
Given the detail of your current situation.. I would recommend that you switch to a 92% AFUE or higher gas furnace. I would suggest you look at a two-stage gas furnace or better. They offer about a 94% AFUE efficiency rating and can provide a much more even heat for your home.
Midwest~Thanks for your detailed reply. What we have decided to do is put an oil tank(doublewalled) in our basement for now. Luckily our insurance policy will take care of most of the cost of removing the old tank from the ground; but with that said~we are required by the policy to stay with oil for 1 year after the removal. We have a gas line into the house so if we want to change in the future we can. It's really a big hassle dealing with all of this. However I am SO thankful we kept up the tank protection policy all these years!! Thanks again.
Posts: 2 | Location: nj | Registered: 01 November 2005
The only maintenance with electric radiant heat is perhaps an occasional vacumming of the heaters to get up dust.
And while gas may actually produce more BTUs than comparable electric heat sources, the cost of a therm of electric can be 25x less than that of a therm produced by gas, so despite the fact you may need 25x more electricity to heat the same area, it will cost 25x less than if you heated the same area with gas...and still come out cheaper.
That's the way the numbers have been working in our region for over 5 years.
Electricity remians the cheapest form of heat dollar for dollar across the board.
Add the additional cost of electricity to even high efficiency furnaces or boilers to run power vents, circulating pumps, and blowers and the cost of total electric heat becomes more economical still.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: homebild,
Good grief. Electricity is the most expensive to run. The (well meaning) fellas that have posted otherwise are completely wrong.
Oil has the highest btu per gallon. Do the math. You made the right choice; especially considering you already have a system in place.
The yearly maintenance? An 8 dollar nozzle. A 4 dollar fuel filter. A few drops of oil in the motor. Tune it ONCE and the costs remain static after that. Gas and electric have no magic advantage at all. -enjoy the comfort. -br
Electric has been far cheaper in Rich's and my region for many years than fuel oil, LP, or natural gas despite the BTU ratings.
While electric creates less Therms (1 Therm =100,000 BTUs) than oil or gas, the cost of a Therm of electric in our region is 25x less than a comparable Therm of Oil or LP or NG...and make electric much cheaper to puchase and operate.
That oil or gas is superior or cheaper heat than electric is an old wives tale.
Here's my math- Propane(95,000 BTU/gal)@$1.55 per gal= $16.25 per million BTU Oil (140,000 BTU/gal)@$2.00 per gal= $14.30 per million BTU Elect (3410 BTU/ KwHr)@ $.10 per KwHr= $29.00 per million BTU
Can you explain why you find electric cheaper? I'm very curious to see your actual numbers. -br
Here, fuel oil and propane is nearly $3 per gallon and electric is less than 9 cents per kilowatt hour.
Here's my numbers from two different homes I maintain for February 2005, the coldest month of the year.
House A is about 2000sf, well insulated, energy efficient windows, hot water baseboard heat with a natural gas high efficiency boiler.
House B is about 1000sf, poorly insulated, single pane aluminum windows, with electric radiant baseboard heat. House B is located in the mountains where mean temperatures are bout 10 degrees colder than House A.
Gas consumption for House A for the period was $226.19 at 203 Cubic Feet.
Electric consumption was $147.41 for 1616 KwH. --------------------------------- House A consumed 203,000 BTUs or 2.03 Therms. (A Therm=100,000 BTUs).
House B consumed 55,140,182 BTUs or 55.14 Therms ------------------------------
House A cost per Therm (NG)= $111.43
House B cost per Therm (Electric)=$2.67
Now, to be fair and taking into account that House A is 2x larger than House B, let's reduce House A's $226.19 energy costs in half to $113.10.
This means, I spent $113.10 to heat House A with natural gas but I spent $147.41 to heat House B for the same period.
Seems like House B cost more but that's not the end of the story.
House B is total electric.
To fairly compre energy costs, we also need to add on the electric consumption of House A to it's total energy bills. This total electric consumption for February 2005 was over $80 making the total energy cost for House A for 2-2005 $193.10.
I spent nearly 25% MORE in energy costs in House A than House B for the same period, and that despite the fact that House A was better insulated and in a warmer area.
If I used more expensive oil or liquid propane, and still needed to add on an electric bill to these exorbitant fuel costs, the difference would be higher still.
The bottom line is fuel costs and BTUs is but one of many factors that need to be considered when making heating choices, and depsite some feuls producing more BTUs than other does not tell the entire story.
You still need to add on electic utility costs to already high oil, LP and NG fuels to make fair energy use comparisons, and with those costs rising by as much as 70% here in the northeast this year alone, and electric prices remaining stable, it makes the case for electric all the stronger.
Add to that the costs of conversions or installations of new boiler, furnaces, flues, chimneys, cleanings, etc to combustible fuels, and the cost savings of radiant baseboard electric heat become all the more pronounced.
I'm in the process of builing a new home and it will be 100% electric with electric radiant heat to give me the most immediate energy efficiency savings and the lowest installation costs.
If you think oil and LP and NG is cheaper than electric, you need to think again, and BTUs per fuel type does not tell the entire story...
First electric. We'll use your figure of $.09 per kw/hr This will yield a cost of $26.10 per million btu
Now lets use your figure of $3.00 per gallon of oil. This will yield a cost of $21.45 per million btu.
Heating cost is about the cost of a btu. It takes a certain number of btu's to heat a home during the heating season.
You buy those btu's in the form of oil, gas electric, wood, propane, coal or kerosene.
Buying in one form will cost more or less than others. That's the point of determining BTU's
Electric costs more; if we use your numbers.
Your comparison between house A and B is flawed. Here's where:
1. You didn't account for the difference between electric consumption between the 2 houses. Who says they'll be the same in a bigger home?
2. You assumed that the 2 houses could indeed be compared. In reality; they can't. That's a flawed model your using. You have no baseline. No constant.
You need to compare the same house with 2 fuels; with identical weather, thermostat settings, and static fuel costs.
Comparing 2 different houses is bad enough; but you don't even have the same floorplan and size.
Your model has variables that you can't account for.
3. NU just filed for a rate hike friday. Electric is about to rise in New England Jan.1st
4. Other forms of energy rise and fall; Electric utilities tend to stay up longer that seasonal oil and gas spikes.
Remember Homebild; I used your numbers. Your numbers don't work. Your experience comparing heating those 2 homes has flaws.
I understand why you would prefer electric. You are (I gather) a "Homebuilder".
Builders like electric because it cost less for them to install in homes. Because of that they talk up the "benefits" of electric heat.
It does cost less -- to install. Not to heat with. Oil would have to reach what, $3.65 per gallon before it would be as unfavorable as electricity. Assuming of course that NU doesn't raise rates above .09 c/kwh which as we know they want to.
Electric heat benefits ONE individual- THE BUILDER. But you already know that.
You need to compare the same house with 2 fuels; with identical weather, thermostat settings, and static fuel costs.
quote:
Your comparison between house A and B is flawed. Here's where:
1. You didn't account for the difference between electric consumption between the 2 houses. Who says they'll be the same in a bigger home?
2. You assumed that the 2 houses could indeed be compared. In reality; they can't. That's a flawed model your using. You have no baseline. No constant.
All things being equal, the numbers I used represent as much a reality than any other method of determining energy consumption, including your BTU only comparisons.
Why?
Because If what you say is true, and I accept that it is, that no two homes can be compared, identically, then this also holds true for making energy conversion comparisons between energy types within a home as well.
BTUs are NOT the only factor by which to judge energy consumption, and BTUs are not FIXED. They are AVERAGES.
Simply because on average, the BTUs of fuel oil is ~95,000 per gallow does not mean that every gallon will produce that many BTUs. Some fuel oils or liquid propanes can produce HALF the rated BTU amounts.
So in reality, we all do our best to "compare" uncomparable things and draw conclusions from there the best we can.
Another flawed comparison you make is that simply because I am a homebuilder, I must naturally prefer electric because it costs less to install and therefore simply boosts my profits.
While totally untrue, I could us the same argument AGAINST installing oil, propane or gas because, after all, the HVAC and Mechanical Contractors want to make the most money by selling you an oil, natural gas or propane system you don't need, because they won't make a penny on electric radiant heat installation...RIGHT?
No, of course, not.
The reality is that for my private homes and in our region, when all things are factored INCLUDING average BTUs, installation costs, maintenance costs, repair costs, regulation of temeprature, etc...
Electric radiant baseboard is the cheapest to install AND the cheapest to operate and has been for many years now. This is why I am not only constructing my new home with electric radiant baseboard heat, but also converting my existing home to electric from "affordable" natural gas to electric radiant baseboard heat because I want to save money and get the most bang for my own energy buck.
BTUs are not the only factor to consider in making energy decisions and never have been.
To try to suggest they should be or to believe they are is to be completely mislead....
I got those numbers from cornburner.com It was the first fuel cost comparison that I had seen on the net. I guess I hit the wrong button for replying to the post! Sorry!
