after reading everything, i think my plan is to (unthusiastically mind you!) dig down to the very bottom of the foundation and scrape/wire brush each area, seal with hydraulic cement, tar it, then poly it, then backfill with peastone.

a) the leak where the floor meets the wall, do i have to actually dig BELOW the wall and floor to seal the entire corner?? (god i hope not!)

b) hydraulic cement directions say i should only use when b/t 40 and 80 degrees F, it is winter, if i am close to forty is that okay?

c)where on earth do i get this tar that i have been reading about? and how thick do i put it on? the thicker the better?

d) each leak (2) is aproximately 25 feet from each other and i plan to do two individual digs approximately 4-5 feet linear long, does this sound right? i mean, it is a poured foundation and i do not have the time nor money nor energy to dig out the entire wall between the two areas.

e)next step is to lay some type of poly, i have read this about Visqueen, is it true?

http://www.stegoindustries.com/faqs/why_cant_i_just_use...y_vapor_barrier.html

so what should i use and how do far up do i go, to surface? also how do i attatch it to the tar? should i just adhere it to it?

f) okay i also read how important it is to fill this hole with stone rather than what came out of the hole. what is it called and where do i get it?

beleive me, this is the last thing i wanted to do before listing my house for sale but i can not afford a contractor and can not sell it like its present condition.

btw, i already tried chipping/drilling it out from the INSIDE and patching it with hydraulic cement and both areas still leak, go figure. that is why i stumbled upon this website and will be forever greatful if any body could help. as a matter of fact, i think they are worse now...lol

i did contemplate digging a sump with a pump but dont want to go through all the trouble and still not fix the leak!!

any advice will be helpful

thanks i advance

bim,

you say ya have 2 problem areas, poured bsmt walls.

you ONLY see water at cold joint, where bottom of wall and floor meet?

do you SEE a crack in either area of wall? Any open/leaky rod hole(s)?

is there a seam that runs vertically down and at bottom of seam & floor is where ya see water enter onto floor?

ya sure no water is running from the top of bsmt wall....down...?

you must define the possibilities/problem(s) before you can choose remedy must be certain what the problems are

IF....you "ONLY" have a problem/blockage under the bsmt floor(no cracks in wall, no water running down wall,no leaky rod holes etc) then, doing any digging-waterprf`g on outside won`t solve a blockage under a floor? This is 'some' folks problem, not alot...but some.

Most have problems on outside but you need to be 'sure' is all i`m saying, before doing anything.

Visqueen? lolol... hey, 6 mil visqueen is FINE to apply over tar, i could care less what others say/think.

Visqueen is applied over the tar/asphalt to 'help protect' what was just applied to the wall when backfilling, thats its use!

Thats why its important HOW one backfills and... WHAT they backfill WITH!

Thats why we backfill by HAND, with peastone. Now, one could use a lil trencher to backfill they just need to be careful, don`t want to pull down the visqueen when backfillling before the tar/asphalt sets up-hardens. Some DON`T use hydraulic cement over cracks etc and so, its even MORE important for THEM to be careful when backfilling and not pulling down the visqueen and the tar/asphalt before it sets up.

Allowing the visqueen & tar to be pulled down when backfilling leaves the TOP any step or vertical crack...OPEN. Yeah, not good at all as now water has the same/easy access-point of ENTRY again.

But like i say, visqueen`s job on a basement wall is simply to protect the tar as one backfills against the wall, thats it. Some may think-ask, "why is this guy so certain of this?"... and i`d reply, because 25+++ years of waterproofing bsmt walls has shown me so. lol
Have seen over and over 'some' Other-waterproofing co`s apply ONLY tar `n visqueen and backfill with all/or part of same soil/clay/roots etc and, as the soil settles it Pulls DOWN the tar `n visqueen several inches to a foot or so. The tar never had the chance to set/harden and now the top of crack is open, again, leaks again.

Ok back to some quest`s... IF....you need to dig then you need to be CAREFUL, thats #1. Know where all lines are etc, be aware any hole has possibility of caving in.

Then, you need to dig to footing/tiles, yeah, just a tad below top of footing.

And yes, applying certain products have weather limitations, which is, why we don`t work most winter`s. So far, here, there is none, yet.we usually close it down in early Dec, Global warming appears to be real deal eh

roofing cement,asphalt... here, we use 'ALCO' or 'DeWitt' they make 3 diff. grades , summer grade,spring-fall and winter grade...winter grade can be used around 20-40 degrees and yes, it does indeed work/seal/waterproof.

You 'should' be able to find it, or similar product at most Builders Supply co`s, call around.

As for what to backfill with, peastone/gravel is Best...yes it is.

http://www.yodergroup.com/concrete.asp ...READ 6th paragraph

or, http://www.bobvila.com/HowTo_Library/Why_Foundations_Fa...oundation-A2095.html try, lol, and READ it ALL

scroll down a tad to -Basement Walls-

http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dpwes/publications/marineclay.htm#2

Now, IF you NEED to dig and beging digging and find you have all/most sand that was backfilled agst walls then you can if you wish, backfill with it after waterproofing, just be careful as ya backfill. we don`t use it because it SETTLES more than peastone, thats what i don`t want. Gravel will settle too, not as much.

Clay and other soils will settle quite a bit more than gravel/sand plus, it puts the same WEIGHT, the same expanding & contracting soil right back against basement wall, not a good thing. Its what causes many bsmt wall to crack, leak,bow etc. Its about doing-it right, its ALSO about the NEXT homeowner, if house being sold. Yep, caring about the next guy/family.

IMO, you need to define the reason(s) why/where water is "FIRST" entering.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: LicensedWaterproofer,

first leak where floor meets wall on the side of the house and the grade does slope away from the house really good, there is no crack whatsoever, just seems to be always wet in the corner.

the other leak, on the other hand, seems to be a crack that goes from the top of the foundation all the way down to the floor and is on the backside of the house. AND it was repaired from the inside once before, that is readily apparent. when i first bought the house 6 years ago there was a little weeping up around eye level and i never did anything exept i did build a deck outside over it and that seemed to help for awhile and it only got wet (weeped) when it rained heavy/long duration. last year we finally put a gutter along the whole length of the back of the house and that also helped but now that little leak has worked its way down to about 18"-20" off the ground. i must add that the grading outside is more than sufficient - going away from the back of the house, it slopes down almost 4 feet the first 14 feet then levels off mostly.

i have checked out Home Depot and the have a plastic roofing cement and i was wondering if this was sufficient. i forgot the name, it was called "XXXXX Choice" (People's maybe?) or is that sam's club...lol. also they carry HENRY products as well. can i get what i need at Home Depot or Lowes? Or should i go to a roofing supply company?

also i did read more of why you reccommend the Visqueen and now understand its use so thanks for clarifying that.

anyone have anymore comments?

88bimmer: Just be extra careful when excavating. Make sure that your excavation is stepped back.Make sure that you have a ladder or proper means of escape.Know the type of soil that you are digging in.Never,never,ever work alone in an excavation.Have you thought about repairing this from the inside? I've had a lot of success using various epoxys and hydrophobic epoxy foams on cracks in poured walls from the inside. You can find a qualified foundation repair contractor at www.nawsrc.org There are many members in your area.Respectfully, Frank O'Pinion

Just keep in mind that a "repair" on the inside isn't a "repair" at all, it's only a band-aid. It does not prevent the entry of water into the wall and therefore into your basement SOMEWHERE, possibly causing mold issues or leaks in a new place. Nor does it stop the entry of radon gas, if that's an issue where you live, nor does it stop the entry of insects and vermin, nor does it last forever, as you have already discovered.

What about to Bimmer's question as far as
only excavating around the trouble areas?

Is this a bad idea?

I'm thinking that if you backfilled with peagravel in one particular area - wouldn't the water all try to go to that one area first, and stay there (up against the trouble spot)

What do you do if your house has no footing drain? Where do you drain the footing drains too if you have no storm sewers and are installing new footing drains?

LicensedWaterproofer has said time and time again that all that's usually needed is to excavate the areas where there are leaks.

Yes, water MIGHT tend to go where the pressure is least, but that's exactly the point of the pea gravel...it reduces the water (hydrostatic) pressure because the pressure dissipates in the voids in the gravel. Also, if you have a choice, wouldn't you want the water, even at reduced pressure, to be where you've just waterproofed the wall, rather than somewhere that you haven't?

There are millions of houses that have dry basements and no footing drains. The drains are not an absolute necessity in all cases. Where they become needed is in places where the water table is continuously higher than the basement floor, and if there is nowhere for a gravity outlet, then often a drywell is installed far from the house, and the pipes lead the water there.

bmf,

have said, unless someone has a wall bowing in, its no problem fixing/waterproofing 1-2 areas of 1 or 2 walls. Have done this nearly 3 decades, no-zero problems.

Most jobs we do are ones where a HO has 1-leaky area, say a corner or in middle of 1 wall. There were getting water inside, on floor where bottom of bsmt wall and floor meet due to a crack. Some had mold or efflorescence or paint peeling etc on wall where crack is. Fix the problem, the crack. We do NOT talk HO`s into ANYTHING other than what they need, what their problem is....at-that-point-in-time, period. For a contractor to ASSUME anything else would be self-interest, for self gain. When i hear crap from some contractors saying chtt like "Oh, Mr & Mrs Homeonwer, you can get water on floor at this corner but water is entering 50' away through another wall" etc is a bunch of chtt...they tell ya that to INCREASE footage which will INCREASE the amount of job, they make MORE. lolol sure!

Now, if HO just won lotto, is well off, or maybe is going to remodel basement and spend thousands doing so,if they want an estimate for all walls/whatever, no problem, we`ll dig from here to Baghdad, well...maybe not quite that far

Think, if HO doesn`t have structural problems, no bowing etc then doing a small 5'- 10' isn`t going to harm anything, how could it, we HAND dig ....we backfill with wheelbarrows, not with any heavy equipment.

With these 1-2 crack smaller jobs, they leak due to the crack or other opening in wall, like where a gas-sprinkler-water line enters through a bsmt wall. Often there are gaps/spaces where these lines enter the outside of wall, somebody didn`t seal around the line


Other times, it may just be loose/cracked parging on outside in this 1 area, and thats how-where water is FIRST entering into the cores of a hollow block wall, gravity takes the water that enters into block...down-through-lower-blocks until the water eventually winds up in the last course of blocks and....enters onto floor. Crack(s) can occur when/just after home was built, they may not widen much-some not at all so, just fix the crack.


Most basement walls are Not Waterproofed, new or old homes. Again, most basement walls are Not waterproofed, some are ONLY damproofed, so with most homes/walls thats NOT enough, it won`t last. Plus most builders do Not backfill w/peastone-gravel-sand. They backfill the soil that was excavated along with crap like wood, broken blocks `n bricks, pieces of concrete, cans & other TRASH. This sort of backfilling does Not provide good DRAINAGE along the entire depth of a basement wall that already is Not waterproofed.

Then figure in the way some builders backfill, w/heavy equipment or even the soil compaction process. This compaction of the soil ALONE could cause crack(s) in basement wall(s), oh yes it can. Thus, for some, within a week,month(s) or maybe a year they begin to see crack(s)....leak.

And INJECTING is NOT the way to go, if a HO wants to do that, go right ahead.From what i`ve seen over the years, about 50% or so of injections of cracks do NOT last, they will re-leak. The crack(s) can pop open, even just a TAD to allow water entry again. The cracks could widen due to several possibilities incl`g, soil that is compacting against outside of wall,soil that expands & contracts against outside of wall in months-years to come etc etc etc.Most builders will Only do an injection, if anything.

Richard is correct, there are folks who have NO drains and dry basement. These folks may never have a problem/leak or, may Not have a leak-crack for 50 years then, all of a sudden, a crack occurs, leaks. And of course some buy a new house and already have crack(s) or, cracks occur within a few weeks/months.

We`ve done quite a few homes where there were No tile along footing....HO had water entering through crack(s), they had water entering onto bsmt floor at cold joint-cove. It had NOTHING to do with having no drain tiles on outside, or as some 'think' having broken/clogged outside drain tiles, BS!!!!!!!

Thats a dang MYTH! Tiles laid along the FOOTING of a vertical bsmt wall have nothing to do with why water is entering through cracks/other openings in bsmt wall or Above a bsmt wall....nothing!

Now, on the OTHER hand, quite a few homes/basements ALREADY have drain tiles laid under the bsmt floor, a HORIZONTAL bsmt floor. So, its possible that the tiles UNDER a horizontal-floor, if there is a blockage or problem/lateral line etc.... 'could' cause some water to begin to accumulate, rise up and enter up through an opening, a gap in a bsmt floor. Have seen water come UP through a hole that was drilled under the last-step into basement or, up through a crack or could cause some dampness when a bsmt floor is thin- 1-2" thick. Some in NY,NJ,PA have floors that are very thin.

In these cases, some will simply need an honest/exp`d plumber to snake, others will need ONLY a sump pump or 2 to.....CONTROL the water level under the floor, especially those thin floors. Does NOT mean anyone needs an Inside drain tile system or a baseboard system, bs!

Some who post here have quite a few BBB CUSTOMER Complaints, just in the last 36 months. And some of these have been doing Only-Most Inside systems for 5-10 years. And yet, other Inside companies have 20,40 60 Customer complaints in last 36 months.....weigh THAT versus some outside contractors who have NO-zero Customer complaints, ever. If that isn`t an obvious signal whats best MOST of the time for a HO then there`s nothing more i can say, maybe call my dear friend Mr SANI, he has something for ya

This message has been edited. Last edited by: LicensedWaterproofer,

I lived in the basement apartment of a building that was built in the early 1950's. In one room, when there were heavy rains, water entered at the "cold joint" where the wall meets the floor. Finally, the landlord decided my midnight calls were a bother, and had the wall excavated on the OUTSIDE, down to the footing.

The wall had no visible cracks, but the original dampproofing was a sprayed-on bituminous material that was as thin as paint. There were clay drain tiles at the footing level, which were completely filled with earth. The contractor removed the tiles and threw them away, brushed on a thich coat of bituminous dampproofing after wire-brushing the wall, and embedded roofing waterproofing shingle underlayment (often called ice and water shield) into the dampproofing extending to and over the tops of the footings. He did not even backfill with pea gravel, but used the original backfill, and the drainage tiles were not replaced.

The leaking stopped, and they only did this to about six feet of the foundation.

Sure, inside water diverters would have sold them a system which, in that building, might have cost them $30,000 or more, and there still might have been dampness, and insects (which there were before the repair) and radon gas, which no one knew if there was or not before. And the water, once inside the hollow block foundation walls, would probably indeed HAVE found its way to another outlet in the apartment. As it was, I doubt that the repairs cost them much more than $1000, and will last probably longer than the building's useful life.

The point of this tale is that one need not repair an entire foundation, when only one section is leaking. Normal construction is quite able to withstand normal water pressure, and if the construction is sound, it will not leak.

Richard: When I say a repair on the inside, I'm talking about crack injection with various epoxys,depending on the particular situation.When I do a crack injection, no water, insects,radon,or red chinese can get to the inside. I've been very successful doing this process, with many satified customers.I even teach a class on it to other professionals in my industry. I learn about new methods of repairing foundations at the National Assoc. of Waterproofing and Structural Repair Contractors {NAWSRC] You can find out more by going to www.nawsrc.org Anyone who is serious about foundation repair needs to keep up with new innovations in the marketplace, and the NAWSRC is a great place to accomplish this. Respectfully,Frank O'Pinion

nothing new about injections, 50% or so will re-leak. Then we have those who only-rather do these injections...many go out of business fairly quick. Thats right, won`t be around when 50% re-leak....DUH... thats means many people are outta that $400-600+...and still leak.

have posted some who only do injections and some have 20++ BBB Customer complaints in the last 36 months, figure that Frank.

of course they tell ya it`ll last forever and this-that-and the other things, like- the epoxy etc is 800 million times stronger than concrete, thats bs. You know what it will NOT withstand 50% or so of the time? Outside lateral-hydrostatic SOIL pressure, yep, tons of soil pushing against the wall--pushing agst the injected crack(s). so there ya go Frank, didn`t have to go to a covention for this fact either.

Sure Dry waterpf`g does injections, heres what THEY state.....

"we have been doing injection methods for many years....injecting sealant materials into wall cracks was a big breakthrough (lolol) at the time. Yet, we have had to watch as continued structural movement and further concrete shrinkage have...Re-opened cracks to leaks. Injection alone CANNOT provide a LASTING SOLUTION as cracks get LARGER and SOIL expansion and contraction cause the foundation to shift and settle"

Can hardly wait for a retort

LWP;: 50% of mine don't leak,and I'm certainly not planning on going out of business. I also reinforce the walls with Fortress carbon fiber staples and/or straps when doing a crack injection. If You kept up with new inovations in your industry, You would be better able to comment on this site. I would suggest that You go to www.nawsrc.org ,there are several links to manufactuters of these new and inovative productsthat will help you to better understand and be more able to comment on the subject of foundation repair. Respectfully, Frank O'Pinion

oh bchht Frank... you ever going to let folks know the name of your great company, huh?

Go to polygem.com/repair/index.php. It is easy to use and very effective and fairly cheap.