Jay, it sounds a little like you think along my lines..
I don't mind paying a fair price for something as long as I get what I pay for..There is a phrase I use " I don't care if you charge me $10.00 for a Hot Dog, just give me a $10.00 Hot Dog "
I don't think an Architect is needed for everything and in the case of your Out-Building, the specs could have just as well come from a reputable builder or company that supplies building that are "Certified" for your are for Snow Load, Wind, Etc... But I sure wouldn't want to try and build a Sky Scraper without an Architect, much less step foot inside one that didn't use one.
A little Common Sense goes a long way especially for the subject of this thread.
I purchased a house with a leaking basement and didn't know anything about B-Dry or their "System" when I called them, but as soon as he described what they did and wanted $7700.00 to "Waterproof" 2 walls, I KNEW they were praying on people... Oh Heck... let's call a spade a spade... they are down right Scamming people..... I knew what needed to be done and when I conversed with LWP, he told me that what I wanted to do was EXACTLY how he does it and, forgive me if I'm wrong LWP, believe he has done it that way for (27 years ?? )
That basement had water coming in when the weather was dry before.. smelled musty all the time.. Once we dug out around the house, within 3 days the basement was dry and not as musty smelling. We waterproofed, put drain pipe in and backfilled with 3/4 chip granite..
The basement is now dry and totally finished with 2 bedrooms, a bathroom and a large bonus room..
Hmmm...a building for 28.40 a square foot...I don't know what costs are like in Minnesota, but I haven't seen a job come in under $150 a square foot for years where I practice.
I can't imagine how I would ever fill a spec book 7/8-inch thick. My specs for complicated house additions run about two typewritten pages.
I also can't imagine ever charging 33% as my fee. Mine normally run around 2% to 3% for, again, complicated house additions. Who made the deal with this guy?
On the other hand, I just came from looking at a house where some guy put in a huge LVL header where he removed a wall. I guess he didn't notice that the floor joists above ran parallel to the wall. An architect could have saved him about $2000 right there. Same guy built a deck, where the floor joists were overdesigned by 100% but the girder that supported them were underdesigned by about 70%. An architect could have saved him the trouble of trying to add some strength to the girder after the fact.
Like any profession, there are good and bad, and all shades in between. I'm sorry to hear about your architect's bills. I've done stuff like that gratis for community organizations.
Architect (NY) and Home Designer (PA)
Posts: 2570 | Location: Tobyhanna, PA | Registered: 24 October 2005
And Doc, some us us wouldn`t have a problem with some of these companies who only/rather do inside systems if they`d.....explain all the facts to each homeowner on estimates. You know...simply say something like 'inside systems will keep most-all water off-the-basement-FLOOR'
Instead, many S T R E T C H the truth. Wait a minute, let me rephrase please ....they conceal the facts for self-gain....some don`t have a clue as to what the facts ARE. The bs-lines are in their advertisements, on their websites, flow outta their traps on estimates.
Thats right, when these bozos make FALSE statements like 'Oh, exterior waterproofing is unnecessary'.....'exterior waterproofing is very expensive and disruptive'....'exterior waterproofing was done when house was built, it didn`t work then and won`t work now' and other foolish/misleading/disparaging statements, they need to EXPLAIN, need to be held accountable for these LIES, cuz thats what it is folks, darn skippy!
This is what many of `em claim so...prove these claims please, prove it or shut the pie hole. Support your claims...and hurry it up.
Lets see, sometimes upon heavy rains, people could get water in basement from BACK UPS...this does NOT mean ya need ANY inside or outside system folks
and sump pumps? a sump can control-water-level UNDER a basement floor..it CANNOT stop water from entering cracks/other direct openings in basement walls or openings above basement walls
Stories are endless, lady calls last night has new leak, had 2 problems areas 15 or so years ago, had an estimate from one inside co for $20,000, she was smart and took the time to find company who was honest and knew better, waterproofed 2 areas on outside..less than 2g. And they, ahem, STOPPED the water from entering.
Ummm, if you have a leaky roof....are you going to stay inside and go up in attic and try and patch or maybe, lolol, devise some scheme to divert water, huh? Or, will you go outside, get on roof and find out where water is entering and repair it?
If you try and play around on inside, whats going to happen? Will wood rot, get moldy? Will insects/water still enter?
Roof isn`t leaking due to the pitch etc, there`s an OPENING(s) up there, hello?
How about water that enters through open mortar joints or around a window-door, will you repair these openings on inside or outside?
...and THERE you have the inside dope about the "inside dopes". Notice that they retaliate with either silence, personal insults, or attempts to "speak to you in private". Why don't they put THEIR thoughts, methods and detailed explanations of THEIR practices up here for all to see and evaluate? I KNOW why, but don't you wonder?
Architect (NY) and Home Designer (PA)
Posts: 2570 | Location: Tobyhanna, PA | Registered: 24 October 2005
Richard... Hope you didn't take what I said wrong...and what you said made me think... What you said about the guy with the LVL Beam... That is a guy that knows NOTHING about ANY type of construction and not only needed an architect, but needed a good contractor as well.
As you said, there are good and bad in anything you do..
As I said, a little common semse goes a long way. Unfortunately at that moment, I forgot how Many people seem to lack, what some take for Granted.
Originally posted by Richard Hetzel: Like any profession, there are good and bad, and all shades in between. I'm sorry to hear about your architect's bills. I've done stuff like that gratis for community organizations.
This is the exact point I was trying to make. Don't lump the all builders in one group as trying to pull a fast one on homeowners, as you did in your previous post. It's simply not fair. There are architects such as the one I mentioned that fall into this category as well.
General Contractor/Home Builder
Posts: 319 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: 15 January 2007
I don't recall lumping all builders into a single category, ever. Heck, I work with some great builders, who, incidentally, have saved MY butt on several occasions, just as I have saved theirs from time to time. It's teamwork. Architects can't know what buildres know, and builders can't know what architects know. So, if it's agreed that that is true, proceeding on a project without one or the other means there is almost half the required knowledge missing! Does THAT make sense?
Architect (NY) and Home Designer (PA)
Posts: 2570 | Location: Tobyhanna, PA | Registered: 24 October 2005
It makes perfect sense, and I agree completely. This is the post I was referring to.
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Hetzel: When you let the builder prepare plans and specifications, naturally they will favor him. Naturally they will be as vague as possible. He won't want to commit to anything he doesn't have to. And his guarantee or warranty will be little more than waste paper, in many cases, as the article represents. Oh, it will sound good in the beginning, but when you need it, you find that what you need it for is magically not covered.
General Contractor/Home Builder
Posts: 319 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: 15 January 2007
Oh THAT! No, I stand by every word of that. The key words in the sentence about the guarantees are "in many cases", which demonstrate that I did not intend to lump all builders into a single category. No, sorry, those words still stand as written.
Architect (NY) and Home Designer (PA)
Posts: 2570 | Location: Tobyhanna, PA | Registered: 24 October 2005
here`s a few homeowners who have a sump pump and, all of a sudden, got water on floor in one or several areas....never had prior problem.
heres what THEY needed...a plumber to SNAKE through the sump pump TILE, yeah thats right.
having an experienced/honest plumber snake through the sump tile FREED the BLOCKAGE, down went the water, you can hear it when blockage was freed.
now...listen .... some of you folks should FIRST try-do this. Why let yourselves get talked into an Inside drain tile system? Blllchhht! DEFINE the darn problem(s)
do this FIRST! Same goes for snaking through storm trap/clean out, when you`ve never had a problem/leak and there are no cracks, no mold/efflorescence etc on bsmt wall(s)...but you get water in on heavy-long rain.
For those in S.E. Mich, call John Scalzo, this guy is exp`d and honest 586-772-7222
Ran estimate for a Lady several weeks ago, mentioned to her part/most/all of her problem-leakage was due to blockage under the basement floor and to call John.She had 2 OTHER plumbers come out and, thats fine...whatever, long as they KNOW what their doing....right?
Well, NEITHER even thought to snake and actually told her, lolol, her problem was due to outside drain tiles and other nonsense.
Posts: 710 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 24 August 2005
'mistakes were made in digging the trench....trenches deeper than 1.2 meters should be SLOPED.....the trench was not sloped,but dug straight up-and-down....shold have been shored....and, SOIL from the trench should have piled at least a metre from-the-trench'... The soil was placed atop the trench, making the trench deeper and increasing the weight----on-the-bank-side...BIG mistake. DON`T pile soil near-next to trench!!! Haul the crap away.
Thats why when digging, it is BEST to 'wheel' the soil out to the street, haul the shtt away. Its not what one wants to backfill with anyways, not whats best to have against the basement wall. If its sand and ya want to reuse for backfill, get it as far away as possible from the excavated area
this poor guy `n others, have house that apparently is downhill from the street, no drainage in the street so, guess who gets a ton of water coming towards house on heavy rains. He had sump pump-system installed, still has problems.
Roger asks.."so ya don`t have to dig down, waterproof?'
They say.. "Oh,no no no, ABSOLUTELY NOT'
and i ask, are they crazy? Hey, IF there are cracks/other openings on outside then, to STOP water/moisture/mold/efflorescence/insects etc it needs to be Waterproofed on outside, where cracks-problems are...hello?
they ask, is it necessary to excavate the outside? THEIR answer...."We strongly recommend against it"....and they add, "it is extremely expensive,time consuming, and destructive" hahaha, yeah, it prolly is if you let THEM do it! Unbelievable. Real-experts huh
NONSENSE! complete bs.
Then, they ask...walls are damp,why? ...so, they don`t stop/prevent water from entering cracks etc YET state 'left unattended, deterioration may occur'...which IS possible! BUT again, they don`t stop water-moisture from entering,and so the walls will STILL get damp/wet if installing an inside system...hello? Gotta go outside to stop water/moisture from entering, this is not that difficult to understand, well, for some it is!! lolol
Waterproofing Co charged $14,000, the companies 'inspectors' lolol INSISTED underground water was being forced up and that ONLY an Interior system would remedy, same shtt different day.
Now, the company is stalling, wanting to take photos and 'brain storm' their next move
Mr Tom is right on money when he says..'it sounds like you have been taken by a common SCAM perpetrated by so-called basement waterproofing experts, these snake oil salesmen use high pressure tactics and scary words like hydrostatic pressure to pressure consumers into hiring them...
Tom says 'sue them' for...not correcting the problem AND for Fraud. Yes indeed.
As has been said time and again, most of these companies who install Inside Systems do NOT Defeine YOUR Problem(s)...they only want to sell/PUSH the ONLY thing they do....an Inside System. It will not stop/prevent water/mold/efflorescence/cracks widening/bowing walls/insects entering. What a great basement environment to have huh.
Say this again too, some HO`s will ONLY truly need an Exp`d-honest plumber to SNAKE the storm trap-clean out and/or if they have a sump pump, to snake through the drain tile/pipe IN the sump.DO this FIRST!!!!!!! Some problems/back ups when flooding occurs is due to your CITY.
Scroll down, read Sewer Line Back ups.. 'if your lateral line is clogged or broken, water IN-the-line has no where to go and can back up into your basement'...on FLOOR. 'Also, groundwater can seep INTO a lateral-line THROUGH any cracks or separated-joints,adding more water into the line and reducing its capacity'...it can BACK up and get onto your bsmt floor through ANY openings/gaps in the floor.
see, all TOO OFTEN some say stuff like "Oh, everyone`s problem is different, all kinds of different solutions" and some Inside Co`s take advantage of that and say crap like "Thats why we offer many different solutions"
Hey, while every home`s problem/leak can certainly be different there are NOT all kinds of these different supposed solutions, bs. Have to DEFINE problem FIRST. A problem with a back up in lateral line or sump line simply needs to be s*****! A crack/other openings in basement wall needs to be Waterproofed. Water that first enters through ABOVE ground openings like open mortar joints/around basements windows needs to be tuckpointed,caulked.
Sometimes a homeowner has 2+ ways/openings they are getting water in, some will need the corner of block wall Waterproofed OUTSIDE AND will need some tuckpointing or may need to caulk around a basement window/replace basement window. DEFINE DA PROBLEM First, ok? lol
Oh....and IF your getting water that FIRST-enters-through a basement window, sheesh, don`t get talked into placing a plastic bubble/window well cover and that type of crap please. FIND `n SEAL the DIRECT Opening(s) around the darn window!!
Of course, if you have water coming from bsmt wall, where bottom of wall and floor meet, it IS MOST always due to water coming THROUGH from the OUTSIDE, has nothing to do with an inside problem/MOST often NOT because of any so-called high water table etc etc these scamming companies like to bs you about.
People get in a rush when they get water on bsmt floor and many hire the first bozo to show up at their door, they believe alot of this NONSENSE these salespeople tell em, stop that!
If you want your problem/leak correctly & honesly DIAGNOSED, slow down, have a couple beers and find someone who`ll help you DEFINE your problem FIRST.
Todays rant.... Are you getting tired of this kind of shtt? i am
..The Building Code Act clearly states.."No person shall construct or demolish a building or cause a building to be constructed/demolished unless a permit has been issued therefor by the chief building official"
"Its against the law" said chief building official for city of Guelph. "Its not grey, its not subjective"
Ya know, when the city screws up, and they sure do sometimes why the heck can`t they own up and admit it...dammmmitttt.Hey, thats what they tell us.
Some cities will take a contractor to court/put ya in jail if the contractor doesn`t pull a permit, ok fine. Then why would the same sobs allow some builders to commence work without a dang permit...grrrr.
Couple cities around here has someone who`ll drive up and down every street throughout the week, looking for contractors who didn`t pull permit, they really want that money. Like i say, fine! BUTTT, if/when they come to do their inspection on work, at least in Waterproofing, they don`t give 2 craps how the wall/cracks are to be sealed. They don`t ask/care how the wall will be backfilled and so on.
They are on site for, maybe 1-2 minutes, look down in the excavated hole and eyeball the dumb azz drain tiles and leave. lololol, its a joke! imo, lic`d/ins`d/honest/EXP`d opinion...its all about the MONEY! Thats it. Add to that, many of these inspectors have little if any a clue on waterproofing.
They actually think its ok to have inside systems/water-diverting, they think nothing of it. They don`t think about possibilities the homeowner may have wall bowing in, crack widening. Don`t stop to think these inside systems they OK won`t stop/prevent water from entering, hey, what about mold? What about deterioration of a hollow block wall? Insects entering the house...like termites. Don`t think termites can`t ruin a dang house, bs.
The expertise is NOT there!!! They are ok`ing permits for inside systems when most-often, the inside system will only keep water that will still enter, off the dang Floor!
Let me ask this....what will the city say/do, when a homeowner had an inside system installed and OK`d by city and down the road a lil, a wall begins to bow in or, cracks W I D E N or MOLD begins to grow on wall/part of wall....all because some dummy didn`t DEFINE the original problem, the inside contractor and the city ok`d it. WHO gets screwed in the end? As always, the workin` man, thats who, the homeowner.
Why is it apparently ok with most to automatically ASSUME an Inside System is best way to go and takes cares of homeowners problem? Huh??? Why doesn`t the CITY look into what these systems do (keep water off the bsmt floor) versus, what they will not do. Maybe, do a little homework Mr Inspector.
To pass/ok inspection for an inside drain tile/baseboard system when, say....the actual problem is a crack in a block wall is ridiculous. So to me, the city is saying 'we don`t give a shtt about further water entering which may cause mold, may cause efflorescence,allow insects to enter, radon to enter, doesn`t relieve/lessen soil pressure and roots which can certainly cause a wall to bow in, crack widen, we dont care and/or, we don`t care to know'.. We only care about drain tiles and water is not on your floor'
I wonder, since they ok these systems, will there be any legal recourse for those homeowners who WILL have problems in the future, hmmm. Hey, the city ok`d the permit right? Didn`t think about what was/is best for most homeowners. Yeah, the citizens they say they care sooo much about, ya hear this crap all the time...its just more nonsense!
I can hear the other side already, they`ll say something like..'Oh, thats what the homeowner wanted/paid for. We can`t be liable for everything etc'
I say blcchtt
Posts: 710 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 24 August 2005
As a matter of fact, building inspectors where I work cannot be made liable for anything. They are protected by law. They can approve your plans, allow construction to proceed, and then when it's very expensive to do what they want, demand changes which are contrary to approved drawings and inspected and approved construction, as long as what they ask is required by code. And I'm not sure that's not the way it should be...the burden of code compliance SHOULD be on the Owner and his design professional, and the building inspector's approvasl should not lift that burden from where it belongs onto the inspector's shoulders.
Architect (NY) and Home Designer (PA)
Posts: 2570 | Location: Tobyhanna, PA | Registered: 24 October 2005
apparently,they can do what they want, when they want, change things if needed along the way...tip-toe through the tulips.
imo some codes need to be changed, especially w/Bsmt Waterproofing.
since the foundation is most important, why allow this minimum damproof code and bs backfilling of same soil nonsense, ya know. Do what is BEST for basement walls when it is the EASIEST, when home is being built. Waterproof em and backfill em w/at least sand, preferably gravel...haul the GARBAGE away. That also includes the bricks,blcoks,wood,concrete etc most still backfill with, right up against bsmt walls. This is pathetic and not thought-through by many builders/city/state.And what about using vertical reinforcing steel in basement walls, ya know. It is rarely placed/used in residential concrete walls.
Could help prevent problems down the road for many folks at not much more of a cost, but here we go again, the little guy versus the all-mighty ones
at least city of Shaker Heights TRIES to inform folks...where are the other-cities/bldg depts?
"Damproofing is an inexpensive way to meet the lowest-minimum-standard-of-the-building-code...damproofing alone is not a waterproofing system. And while we are speaking of codes, here is one of the traps.....The answer is to Waterproof the foundation NOW and to ensure your basement will indeed stay dry..."
"Thousands of homeowners THINK they have a waterproofed foundation, when in fact they do not.....the higher intial cost of waterproofing is well worth. Interior waterproofing methods used after a leak has developed are generally not as effective as a compound applied to the exterior surface of the foundation'...to say the least
"Foundation waterproofing is often confused with 'damp proofing'.........WHEN installed properly, these Waterproofing compounds can keep a basement dry for many, many years"
.."Coarse-grained,well-drained soils like sand and gravel apply the LEAST-lateral load"
...After compaction, soil is under compression like a spring and CONTINUES to push against the foundation as it tries to expand......in practice, sands and gravels densify or compact more readily than silts or clays, creating LESS of this springlike-force---one more GOOD REASON to use them for BACKFILLING"
got milk?
Posts: 710 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 24 August 2005
The Bob Vila link is helpful. I have a question, how close can heavy equipment safely get next to a house?
"Careful on the Construction Site When there's a heavy load on the ground next to a foundation, some of the pressure is transferred to the wall. During construction, bulldozers and trucks that come near a basement wall can add enough surcharge pressure to damage the wall. A new building being built near an existing basement can also increase the underground pressure and damage the existing foundation."
We're holding off the hand digging/waterproof late Spring project until after my husband's hernia surgery (which was why I was insisting I needed to do the digging, I'm small but strong).
I finally saved up anough money to start the process of getting a leachfield But that means a backhoe needs to drive into the backyard to dig. What is a safe distance?
Thanks! Deb (Who would love to take a shower without setting an egg timer)
Posts: 66 | Location: Slab House in Southern NH | Registered: 21 November 2006
If you were to create an imaginary plane, starting at the bottom of the foundation wall, and extending upward and outward at a 45-degree angle until it reaches the surface of the ground, any heavy equipment should remain outside the line formed where the imaginary plane intersects the ground surface. In other words, the deeper the foundation, the farther awa
....they conceal the facts for self-gain....some don`t have a clue as to what the facts ARE. The bs-lines are in their advertisements, on their websites, flow outta their traps on estimates.
.... some of you folks should FIRST try-do this. Why let yourselves get talked into an Inside drain tile system? Blllchhht! DEFINE the darn problem(s)