LWP,

While I agree with you on most points, it might be a good idea for you to spend some time reading up on soil mechanics because many of your statements regarding soils and hydrologic properties of those soils are at best inaccurate. Given this, it severely weakens your position, especially considering how viciously you slam others for making false and inaccurate claims in order to promote their product or method.

hahahhaaa...say what Inside-system bozo?

my statements regarding soils?

did you bother to notice i QUOTE other`s links?

Not one thing weakens the-facts and the facts have been posted, repeatedly!

Oh...29 years doing this job, what say you?

Sonia, we don't know yet whether you DO have water pressure underneath. But if your foundation walls prove 100% sound, and there is no above-ground point of entry for water, then possibly the water table in your immediate area has risen. If you don't mind a huge mess in your yard, a small backhoe can dig a test pit up to about 15 feet deep, and you can monitor the digging to see when water begins to appear in the pit. If you're going to go that far (and I don't really advise it), then it might pay to have a soils engineer observe and analyze what he sees when the pit is dug...but this would be a radical step to take.

One step at a time...do the diagnosis and see what you learn, and then we'll take it from there. No sense speculating when facts are not far away.

LW, he probably didn't understand "geomorphology" either.

LWP,

In fact I'm a landscaper with a degree in soil and water science and minor in plant biology. Your derogatory comments and name calling further weakens your position.

As you have pointed out, you can find copious amounts of information on the internet to support just about any claim. All I am suggesting is you spend some time in a library with real bonafide text books.

Or perhaps you would prefer I start ripping apart your statements?

BTW, I do know what geomorphology means.

This is a forum where people try to help people. It is not a forum for personal attacks. Had you taken the trouble to read the hundreds of LicensedWaterproofer's posts, you would have found an overwhelming ring of truth in them. You would have seen a sincere effort to share his expertise for no personal benefit. You would have read about methods which have worked consistently over decades. What of that deserves such a personal attack? It is your attack that makes YOU a small person, by comparison. If you wish to, and are able to, help people in this forum, then you are welcome, like anyone else, to do so. If you wish to try to smear someone who does not deserve it, please go elsewhere for that. It serves no purpose here.

Richard, I will definitely do the garden hose test once the rain stops. I remember that when we bought the house, we did such a test(6 years ago)and there were no leaks inside the basement. Nothing comes from above ground, there are no signs of misture on the walls. I have had a very dry basement until now. I have read online that sometimes the water underground shifts due to new contruction in the area. That might be my case.
What do you think about French drains? Would they help with the drainage outside?
The test with the pit dug outside and monitored would be fine. I would not mind any mess as long as it might help me find where this water is coming from.

My neighbor has notice a very weak, watery round spot on my lawn, close to the house. That might means something too.
What do you think about French drains? Would they help with the drainage outside? I would so much hate to have to dig inside and put a sump pump. Hopefully this won't be the case.

Again, I sincerely appreciate all the time you take to answer my questions. I feel more relieved now. Monday I was ready to move out

I found this forum because I was looking for methods for dealing with leaks at a cold joint.

I did read many of his posts, and I did state in my first post that I agree with most of what he says. However, some of the statements he has made are simple uninformed and wrong, and after reading the same thing over and over again I felt it was prudent to point it out. Since you and he have pointed out that this is a forum for FACTS, then lets get the facts straight, and not sling about misinformation.

I in no way made a personal attack on LWP, in fact the opposite, he personally attack me. I simple made a suggestion that he read up on soil mechanics because some of his statements are wrong.

blast from the past, originally published July 14 1985....

well, basically same old stuff

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E06EFD6...37A25754C0A963948260

lets see here, a lil i agree with, most is either, simply not the truth and/or some facts/recommendations being omitted...and imo purposely

touch upon a few things for now--
Article says..'water pressure against-the-structure is usually alleviated by digging a drainage trench either around the basement floor or around the outside of basement wall'

Ummm, water pressure against basement wall(s) is not alleviated by installing ANY inside drain tile-drainage trench around basement floor or any baseboard system, this is not possible.

If someone says/thinks/assumes that when these inside systems are installed and they drill holes through bottom blocks somehow relieves/alleviates outside pressure they are sadly mistaken. All they accomplish by drilling holes on inside of blocks is, to allow water that will continue to enter the hollow blocks from the outside out of the blocks and into the inside system.

It isn`t stopping water from entering, it isn`t alleviating any pressure, soil/hydrostatic pressure/roots that is still against the outside of the basement wall. What about deterioration on blocks huh? What about leaving that same-soil-pressure on the outside of wall which can cause cracks, existing cracks to widen, can cause a basement wall to bow inward. What about mold, efflorescence etc? Why don`t they get-into these problems/possibilities? Some know better.

This IS correct where it states..."the OUTSIDE Method is more favored by (ahem!) EXPERTS". But quickly it goes astray,when says 'but it may cost twice as much'.

Hmm, they are 'ASSUMING' one will be using "large, soil-moving equipment"

And, many homeowners-not all only need 1 wall done or, 2 corners/a few different areas so, how does one come to the conclusion that an outside method will cost twice as much, HUH?

Let me turn it around on THEM....WHY would they talk homeowners into, and they do OFTEN, a full inside perimeter system when the only problem/leaks are along 1 wall or in a couple corners? Its going to cost alot "LESS" to FIX problem(s) correctly on Outside...yeah, uh huh.

And lets not forget that inside systems don`t stop/prevent water from entering what most Ho`s have....cracks/loose parging etc on the outside and so, they won`t stop/prevent mold/efflorescence etc. If anything, they are INCREASING the risk/chances of a basement getting mold, they are going to continue to allow water to enter so whats that give the homeowner? yeah, a wet/damp basement. And what enjoys wet/damp basements? Yep..insects/mold

You SEE anything mentioned about the possibilty of a blockage/clog in lines under floor or in a sump? i don`t, wonder why If they care about every homeowner like they say and are such experts, as they also say, why don`t they ever talk about or recommend snaking through strom trap/clean out and/or through sump line, huh? Don`t believe me? No problem...call John Scalzo 586-772-7222...ask him if its possible/how many homeowners got clear-water onto their floor due to a BACK UP which he freed by snaking

Why don`t they ever bring this up?....Scroll down to... SEWER BACK UP
http://www.cityoffortwayne.org/index.php?option=com_con...ew&id=276&Itemid=370

That clear-water that enters onto some peoples basement floor may certainly be from a broken line or clog/blockage which can be freed by SNAKING! Article talks about water coming from under-the-floor instead of walls so...its quite possible that ton of water is from a blockage! Yeah, their interpretation of hydrostatic pressure under a floor could very well be due to a blockage/broken line, read fort wayne LINK, see the DIAGRAM. knock knock, anybody home?


And most inside systems leave a gap/space along base of wall and floor, wide OPEN...especially with poured walls. Now what can easily enter the basement up-through these gaps? Radon!! -See How Radon Enters Your House, read "D"...Floor-wall joints

http://www.epa.gov/radon/pubs/physic.html#Character

The article talks about digging trench on outside, laying perf pipe and covering trench. Hey, what about waterproofing the wall(s) while yer out there and what about peastone/gravel as backfill instead of tossing the same garbage back against the bsmt wall, no mention of backfilling w/gravel....lol, come on.

Page 2 says, back in 1985...they spent $2,000 for some type of inside system. Since Inside Systems pretty much only require plastic perf tile, 4-8" gravel and some concrete, what has gone up sooooo much to increase what they charge NOW? Perf plastic tile you can get about 100' for $20 or less, they cut out and replace around 1' of concrete, not talking much money there and 4-8" gravel isnt crap either so why do so many-not all companies who install Inside system NOW charge $7,000-$17,000....HUH?

and spraying on/brushing on thin damproofing is not Waterproofing.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: LicensedWaterproofer,

Kyo the Landscaper! ( I think it`s someone ELSE, give ya`s a couple guesses who! lolol)

go baby GO!

Richard

Hey sport...IF you are indeed a landscaper and MAYBE your the best on the planet, ill give ya that OK, how do you figure with any common sense that you somehow posess 10-20-30 years of basement waterproofing knowledge, hands-on at that...please help me, i`m getting old.

Please prove what i`ve done for decades is wrong, prove the LINKS from OTHERS wrong.
Lets see, between Capizoo Const, RL Stremersch,Downriver Water`g, Clark Water`g and myslef(and a few others)....add those links from Fairfax County/Yoder/Engineer`s/Bldg Dept/Gov`t Mold and radon links/termite and insect links/efflorescence links....prove it wrong, step right up baby and take your swings

Traffic... Dear Mr Fantasy play us a tune

This message has been edited. Last edited by: LicensedWaterproofer,

LWP, you need to get a grip. I ONLY statement I made here was that some of your facts about soil mechanics are wrong. In fact I have now stated twice that I agree with most everything you have said. I have said nothing about your experience or knowledge of basement waterproofing, nor have I claimed in any way that I am an expert at basement waterproofing..

Perhaps you should take Richards advice and stop with the personal attacks.

If you want my personal opinion about basement waterproofing, here it is.

Basement leaking occurs when there is free water present at the soil-foundation interface. Remove the free water and the problem goes away. If there are cracks, and removing the free water is not feasibly possible, then as you have point out hundreds of times, the only way to fix the crack permanently is at the source, the exterior.

Umm, no no no

this is what you posted.....

quote:

Originally posted by KYO:
LWP,

While I agree with you on most points, it might be a good idea for you to spend some time reading up on soil mechanics because many of your statements regarding soils and hydrologic properties of those soils are at best inaccurate. Given this, it severely weakens your position, especially considering how viciously you slam others for making false and inaccurate claims in order to promote their product or method.

you stated MY statements regarding soils etc are at best inaccurate. well, prove me wrong is what i posted back.

then you say do to this lousy grip i have concerning soils etc it severly weakens my position. Prove my position wrong please! I`m not here wanting/trying to be everyone buddy, bs! Here to try `n inform.

then lolol, you say.... i viciously slam others for making false statements etc for self gain. Well OF COURSE i do! When some lie/cheat/make false claims etc to homeowners for self gain, you betch yer landscaping rear i will slam em...slam em and try to inform HO`s with ALL facts, whats the problem?

Sonia, a french drain MIGHT be what you need to stop the water from entering your basement. Again. do the easy and free diagnosis first.

If your property slopes enough so that drains at the level of your footings can discharge by gravity to daylight, that would be good. Otherwise, the drains should be run to a sump pit and the water pumped out from there. Often it is recommended that the pit be placed inside the building, so you may have to dig a sump pit in your basement anyway. If you do, it's not a big operation.

It is one of many possible measures you can take to cure the water problem. As you proceed, some will rise to the top of the list, and others will be eliminated. OK?

OK I have my agenda all straightened up now!!
Thanks a lot, Richard!!! You have really been of TREMENDOUS help and I learned a lot from this forum!
Thanks to everyone who took the time to post and share valuable information. It matters a lot to people like me who have no knowledge of many homeownership related issues.

Thank you!! Thank you!! Thank you!!

just because you have a sump pump doesn`t mean your going to have a dry basement. some will try `n bs you on this...define your problem(s) first.

http://origin.berkshireeagle.com/localnews/ci_5692155

'two sump pumps have been installed but the basement remains too wet for regular use'

http://knox.villagesoup.com/community/story.cfm?storyID=90933

'in most cases, sump pumps have either failed or become overwhelmed..'

LW, I totally agree with you. A co-worker has a similar problem. I will do the garden hose test once the rain stops and the ground is dry.

PS The second link is hylarious. Now I know what I need to really have around the house for the next time water gets inside (if ever): a Kayac

Ha!

LWP, I don't see why you need to automatically assume someone is an inside guy just because they don't completely agree with you. I recall my first post on this forum was met with the same response. (By the way, if you want an update on that, I decided that I am going to do the OUTSIDE fix this summer, because even though it will be a pain, it is the right way to do it.)

"hahahhaaa...say what Inside-system bozo?"

Why the need for this? Do you think this helps anyone? The guy simply said that maybe some of your facts on soil mechanics may not be completely true. Why not just ask what specifically ask what? I'm a contractor and if someone told me that I was mistaken on something, I'm going to want to know what it is - not just dismiss them as wrong even before I heard what they are talking about.

And Richard I'm surprised at you. For someone who promotes architects and engineers - you dismissed this gentleman, who is a soil engineer, without even hearing specifically what his issue was - in fact you accuse him of making personal attacks.

This is just an point of view from a neutral guy - I know I will probably be accused of being an inside guy with an agenda but I can assure you that is not true. I took LWP's advise with my own basement and will be waterproofing in the coming months, I respect his knowledge and expertise.

The attitude on this forum certainly does not invite altering opinions - whether they're right or wrong.

First, NOTHING tells us that he is a soils ENGINEER. When he can display a license, he can assume that title; not before.

Second, LicensedWaterproofer has been PLAGUED with inside water diverter contractors posting under assumed names, not offering any information that may be of value to the public who reads this forum, and attacking his posts and himself personally.

Third, the person obviously missed the point completely that LicensedWaterproofer posts links to OTHER authorities about soil properties, so the opinions and statements contained in them are not HIS, but those of the authorities whose websites he references. If the landscaper had any complaints, it was with those responsible for the referenced websites, not LW.

Fourth, the "attitude" on this forum is primarily one of helping people with problems. None who do so are expecting any personal gain from their contributions here.

There is another attitude on this forum though, and rightfully so; it is against those who mislead and/or lie to the unsuspecting public, and charge huge sums to install systems that solve only one problem...they might keep water off the basement floor. They do not solve the problem of how or where or why the water enters, they do not even attempt to diagnose the problem before installing their bogus "solution", and quite frankly, they rob people. Now, which is the bad attitude? The one that costs people thousands and solves no problems? Or the one that attempts to expose these charlatans for the thieves that they are? You tell me.

All I said to the landscaper was that he was free to post whatever he wished if it serves to help people that need or ask for help. When I see a post which attacks another poster without contributing anything of substance, I become suspicious of its intent, simply because so many (or maybe just one or two under many different names) have done the same thing.

I much prefer to offer whatever "expertise" that may have stuck to me in an almost 50-year career than deal with people who come here and become critical of others without offering anything of their own. One is fun, the other isn't. Had the landscaper posted links to sites which backed up his opinions, I'm sure LicensedWaterproofer would have gone to them and read them with great interest, as I would have, or you would have. THAT is contributing something. To suggest that a highly experienced man who bends over backwards to help people for no expectation of personal gain go "back to the textbooks" is about a dime short of a serious insult, and THAT is why I responded the way I did. And I'd do it again.

By the same token, I'm suspicious of people who post one-line responses to peoples' questions, and then say "email me for further discussion", or words to that effect. Why? Because first, this is a public forum, and many more people than one stand to gain by answers and advice posted here. Second, because most of us put our round things on the line here, for all to see and evaluate, and we risk being wrong occasionally while trying to help to the best of our ability. I believe that if someone uses this forum to give advice, they should give it in public.

Some (not all) of those who say "email me" are saying it so they can try to sell their inappropriate solutions out of the public eye, and that I object to.

We never know who, besides the person we're responding to, may benefit from our discussions. No one benefits from "email me".