maybe 'Chiguy' `n others could post a lil of what he has gone through so far, how much $$ these companies want to charge him, and what they want to install for him.
Posts: 710 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 24 August 2005
FCF, nary a problem....and i wish you the best whatever you decide to do. 1 more note, for instance when i posed a few questions to these guys this was their response
FCF, I don't know LWP personally, but after reading his posts and then talking with him on the phone, I like what he says and I believe him.
Maybe it is because he reminds me of me, tenacious, BullDog like in what he believes. Just as I am when I sell my oil and I run into so many peaople that read some BS on the internet and not only believe it is true but then they become a so-called "Expert and then try to tell me how it is after 21 years in the business.
I believe LWP can be trusted in what he says and when it comes down to waterprooofing, common sense must prevail, Stop the moisture on the OUTSIDE and forget these waterproofing techniques that are gimmicks to hide a problem and let them put a ton of money in their pockets without CURING the Real Problem.
I don't know if you remember our conversation LWP, but I closed on that bowed/busted foundation house this last Monday. I started cutting down trees and gutting the inside within 2 hours of closing.
I have to get an electrician in to take the Weatherhead off the house and set up temporary service so I can have the house raised 3 feet. From there, I will dig around the outside, hopefully jack the wall back straight and try to put some re-bar down the block and then fill them with concrete. Then the Tar as you recommended.
The only real reason I am having someone take it up 3 feet is the basement is only 7'6" and I want to end up with a decent height. I will be building a knee wall of 2X8's and exterior plywood about 16" high on top of the foundation andd then have the house set back down on there.
Have a great weekend, hopping on the bike to go to Orlando for an oil meeting.. 2000 miles round trip, looking forward to some saddle sores... NOT
Sure, I can do that. I've had a couple of companies out so far and it became clear very fast that these companies only have one thing in mind. They want to jackhammer your floor and replace your french drain with theirs and divert it to a new sump pump. They combine this with gluing up plastic sheeting on the wall to catch water and force it under the new slab they pour and into the new sump they put in. My first quote to do this along about an 8'-10' section of my basement floor was $2400, the second $2800. Notice I said "replace" my french drain. This is because they alledge that my current one is stopped up and the water I'm getting is from under the slab because of this. (Well actually, the second company said this, the first just launched into "we fix it this way".)
Now, I'm getting about a cup of water in my basement during a very heavy rain. There is no evidence of any stoppage of my french drain and if you look in my sump well, the pipes are bone dry and look like they always have been. I suppose they would say that the only section of my pipes that are stopped up happens to be the only section that is ever getting any water? Not likely. I don't think I've ever had water get under the slab.
Even better is the more detailed story of my second quote. The guy first said I needed the french drain renewed AND they needed to dig up my foundation and rewaterproof the outside (of course this is the correct way to do it alone). BUT, they would only do the outside if I had them do the inside too because that was the main way to fix it. Further, they wanted $2400 for that. Then, the guy goes, "Wait, I just thought of something. This isn't quite as good a solution, but I think we could skip the outside work if we put up this plastic sheeting on the inside and diverted any water that enters into the new sump. That would only be $2800 total. Would you rather go that way?"
I felt pretty stupid when I didn't put it together until the next day that I think it was all an act to shock me with the $4800 quote and then "miraculously" save me $2000. Maybe he was sincere, but I'm skeptical.
Anyway, it's been a tough search, but I've finally found a couple of people who are going to come look at things and say they don't leap to wanting to jackhammer your floor. It seems tough to find people who want to do it right. I'm guessing there is tremendous profit in the internal, jackhammer the floor, approach.
Now when I talk to anyone, I immediately ask them if they do the "jackhammer the floor" approach and tell them to not bother coming if that is their method.
My area (suburban Maryland) is tough to find people to do work like this in unless they can inflate it to something like above for little actual effort. Seems all the building trades are swamped with work and they go for easy money. If I can't find anyone to do this reasonably, I may have to resort to searching for day labor who can help me dig and just do the waterproofing myself on the outside. Not what I really want to do however!
I do have to say I really appreciate LicensedWaterproofer's post as he is the first place I found out that this jackhammer the floor approach is a crock. I might not have known that and been taken in if I hadn't found this thread. At least since then, I've talked to 2 real estate agents and other who have told me that the jackhammer the floor approach is a high profit scam (to be fair, I'm sure not all companies pushing this are trying to con anyone, I'm sure some believe genuinely they are doing the right thing). I just don't think in my case it is the right answer and it's not what I want. I'm hopeful at this point that one company might work out who does foundation coating. I suspected they only did new construction before I called, and sure enough, that was the case, but they agreed to come look and since my home is not that old, said they might be able to do it afterall. They also immediately said, "don't let anyone jackhammer your floor, that's a bunch of crap."
Now, if only LicensedWaterproofer wasn't so far away, maybe I could avoid all this hassle!
Oil, hey congrats on yer house! and maybe the Mrs can help prevent saddle sores, have her tuck her hands between seat `n butt, gl and have a Great Time!
Chi, keep searching for 'right contractor-company'.... it`ll be worth it, as long as its done correctly you`ll be fine.
As the Moody Blues wrote `n sang-
" and to those who lack the courage and say it`s dangerous to try, well they just dont know that love eternal will not be denied...I know your out there somewhere, somewhere you can hear my voice, i know i`ll find you somehow"
this one is a lil off topic But i cant help think of the world & the powerful-rich-politicians `n corporations
King crimson 'Epitaph' "the wall on which the prophets wrote is cracking at the seams....Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules, the fate of all mankind i fear, is in the hands of fools!"
"Confusion, will be my Epitaph, as i crawl a cracked & broken path, if we make it we can all sit back & laugh. But i fear tomorrow i`ll be crying, yes i fear tomorrow i`ll be Crying!"
best of luck guys!
Posts: 710 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 24 August 2005
homeowner has water seeping in, water has worsened,basement walls have mold on them...where the water comes IN. Can`t kill the mold cuz the water keeps coming in, kids coughing-allergies,husband doesnt believe it could possibly be because of mold,needs help.
let me ask....just how will any Inside company STOP the water from Entering the bsmt walls if they dont go....OUTSIDE to seal-waterproofed the cracks/walls?
what are they going to say `n recommend for this situation, another inside method that doesnt STOP water from entering? Applying a wonder sealer to inside of bsmt walls? Ya know?
See the response,which is to get the chance to get inside someone`s home and begin to tell a bllchtt story? A variety of systems? Why cant they be more direct `n answer this homeowner, take more time & define exactly what they would do to...stop the water from entering which will then stop/prevent the mold. Nah, why do that, want the opportunity to get their twinkle toes in the door. call 1 800 bll chtt
did ya watch & listen to this beauty? these poor people
walls continue to crack, builder has tried numerous things incl`g inside method(look at where floor `n wall meet,you`ll notice the new concrete where the inside system was done), epoxy used in cracks and still...leaks. Gotta remember walls were 'damproofed' NOT Waterproofed(he says waterproofed, but with what? thin-tar sprayed on?) and Most likely backfilled w/soil that was dug up on site...lil if any peastone backfilled. They should have run a hose-water test long ago before going through various things they...thought `n assumed....would work-fix. First define what the actual problem is, then fix it correctly! From many miles away i can see at least part of the problem are outside openings at-near ground level(brick ledge) and might be more that are higher above ground level, thats how `n why at least some of the water is entering, Got milk?
and to top it off, here comes a structural engineer who actually states he is " NOT concerned with size of cracks and the continued cracking in all walls" Wow!!! The cracks are No concern? We`re not talking about a couple hairline cracks here, and again, more cracks continue to develop!@#$%!@# Ugh
LWP and Chi, I have just finished reading your dialog here and found it to be very helpful and interesting and wanted to see if your methods would apply to our house. We have just had an addition put on our 100 yr old house. Because of some guttering issues, we have water in our dirt crawlspace for what we believe is the first time. The crawlspace entrance is about the size of a cinderblock, so I don't travel there often. My reports about dry/wet conditions have come from several builders we interveiwed and now an independent inspector. The area we are talking about is in the old portion of the house. As part of the new addition, a porch was built that butts against old house in this corner. They did not leave sufficient space between the roof and old house to put a conventional gutter and we have had a fair amount of rain lately. Now the crawlspace is wet. How can we solve this without removing the new porch?
Chi-Did you find anyone good to do your work? I am in Annapolis and once you find someone who does a great job, please let us know so we can use them too.
I'm guessing you definitely have "guttering" issues as you say. Sounds like whoever put on the addition didn't do a good job engineering the roof line of the addition versus the old roof line and how they meet up. This is certainly not my area of expertise. Without pictures, I'm guessing you need to somehow catch the water running off some portion of the roof and get it away from the foundation. If you can get the water into a downspout, you can then attach the bottom of the downspout to a length of black corregated drainpipe and bury it in a trench until it discharges somewhere away from the house. That's what we did with the downspout and sump discharge at the rear corner of our house. The sump discharged condensate from our air conditioners and was keeping it a mud hole under our deck. We buried a drain pipe under the yard about 75 feet and have it discharge into the woods.
Chi- Old house was a 2 story rectqangle with the small end and front door on the street. The one stry addition went on the back and extended out to make the house an "L" shape. Front door is now in the small part of the "L", at the top of driveway. I hope that makes sense. The front porch guttering is collecting water from 2 crickets (porch to new house and the one used to attach the addition to old house. As I said to LWP, I will try to figure out how to post pics this weekend. Thanks
chi, yeah lol...i`m just an old man who doesnt hear so well and while i enjoy some of the new stuff of today, the 60`s-80`s is where most of my favorite stuff is still at. 'Epitaph' is off the lp-cd In the Court of the Crimson King...if interested hit this link for opinion`s of some ...lol..'hippy-link' http://www.hippy.com/php/review-355.html
Posts: 710 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 24 August 2005
"Radon enters your house through cracks or openings in the foundation. It can seep through concrete & spread throughout your house. The age,size or value of your home doesnt matter."
Here again, what is going to seal these cracks & other openings to help stop Radon from entering, what is going to stop water from entering through these outside openings which will then prevent Mold, what is going to relieve hydrostatic-lateral pressure which is against the outside of basement walls? An outside method done correctly, thats right. NOT Any Inside drain tile & dewatering method.
scroll to 3. "Radon gas can enter a home from the soil through cracks in concrete floors and walls,floor drains,sump pumps,construction joints and 'Tiny cracks or pores in hollow-block walls."
Inside drain tile methods and dewatering baseboard methods leave bottom 3-4" of cracks open-leave the cold joint area open,and drill MORE holes into a block wall...+ adding a sump, another hole in the floor when these inside systems are almost NEVER necessary to begin with? Somebody missed many important points coming up w/ this bs method. got milk?
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Without a doubt, waterproofing from the exterior offers many advantages over interior methods. Generally, if a homeowner is going to live in the home for more than a year and is also interested in quality of life improvements such as reduced moisture, mold, humidity, and radon, then an exterior solution is the preferred choice. This is because an exterior membrane prevents moisture from entering the cinder block walls. This membrane doubles to prevent radon and soil gasses from passing through pourus block walls. Jackhammering the inside of a basement floor (As is done with interior systems)allows radon gas to easily enter your home. This site offers excellent and logical reasons why a homeowner who has researched waterproofing will chose and exterior gravity solution over any type of interior system. http://www.bobcats4hire.com/basement_waterproofing.htm
Started digging around foundation yesterday. Going to be one tough dig, solid clay and dry.
Picks and shovels flying, we will get down there, LOL.... will probably go 3 ft wide just for ease of working in those conditions.
I need to jack the block foundation back in place from the inside, a little worried about being in a basement and having a blowout. Thinking about taking 4 bottle jacks and building a couple beams to take some pressure off the wall.
So far, the block looks like it is in good condition but we haven't got too far down yet. One guy told me that the blocks would be crumbly after 35 or so years but so far, so good.
Thinking of studding up the walls when done but should I put plastic first on the interior block and caulk along the slab where it meets the block ? Also, I was going to paint the block inside with something like Dry-Lock or similar just for a little insurance. What are your thoughts.
Don't want to get too overboard, it is just an investment property.
Doc-- if you like, to make digging it out Alot easier, run a hose the day/night before where you`ll be digging next day. Soak it good if its That-Dry! Yeah, you will probably get some water on bsmt floor.
Caulking the cold/isolation joint(where wall `n floor meet) wouldnt hurt, it`ll at least keep the possibility of some radon gas entering at that point.
And hey Doc, how DEEP is the footing? If its 5 1/2-6' deep then 3' is pretty wide(more backfill), but if you need the room to work then by all means. We go 18"....2' wide tops.
We rarely see 'crumbly' outside of block wall, if anything....parging may be loose `n of course various cracks incl`g vertical,step,horizontal.
Make sure ya know where GAS line is,lol.
Running that hose will help yer digging process, it could add a lil pressure against wall, doubt much ta worry about short term. In fact we had to run water in Super-Dry azz clay today, and of course builder had backfilled with lots of broken concrete pieces,broken blocks,bricks,wood etc, the cheap sob. best of luck `n continue to let us know how it goes.
Posts: 710 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 24 August 2005
