We are in the market of finishing our basement. However we noticed old water stains on basement walls and dampness/humidity on one corner wall. We had different companies coming and checking our problem. And the answer is always installing a drain pipe or watergard around the whole perimiter of the basement.
After trying to research infos, we are getting more and more confused about what we should do.
Our wall are concrete blocks. The house is about 60 years old. We don't have seepage.
Hi LWP, I have just bought a 105yr. old victorian home in Maine. With the foundation being granite and brick. What would be the best solution to waterproof the out side and add drainage since this was probably not done back then.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: james lord,
Easy to get confused with all the bs and uncertainty from many, isnt it?
This is the Only area that has dampness right? And does this part of wall get damp Only when it rains, or when the sprinkler is on....or is it damp all the time regardless if there is a downpour or not?
If you Only have 'water stains'---dampness, that shows on the inside corner of a block wall it is there because 'either--and'
A) there is a crack or other opening(s) on the outside of the bsmt wall
B) there is a direct opening(s) "above" ground incl`g open mortar joints,loose-cracked brick, openings around basement window,or any other on the outside...of where you see water stains-dampness on the inside.
More than likely when it comes to dampness,water stains at-near a corner of a block basement wall it is because there is a problem directly on the outside of where you see this dampness on the inside of the wall..know what i mean?
Like i said, the parging on the outside of the bsmt wall may be deteriorating-falling apart....and/or there will be a hairline crack in the corner of bsmt wall that allows 'some' water-moisture inside of the block, inside the cells-cavities of the block wall, enough to get the inside of wall 'damp' but not enough to show up/wet the floor.
I recommend 'Before' you spend 1 penny, to get a hose and run water at ground level directly in this corner. Have the hose aimed directly at the bsmt wall a few inches away and let it run-soak the ground for up to 1 hour.
While running the water, keep a close eye on problem area of wall, watch for the wall to get 'damp'....IF it does then....yes, you have a crack/opening in the bsmt wall near the corner and need to Waterproof it correctly!
If you run the water for 1 hour and do NOT see 'any' dampness/water on the wall-floor then there is Not a problem BELOW ground with the wall. The problem will then be Above ground, look for small-tiny openings in the mortar joints, look for ANY small openings where a service lines may enter near this corner.
See, if you-anyone said that you had dampness on 'Many' parts of the basement walls inside then its possible that could be from humidity inside bsmt, or if you said there was plastic up agaisnt bsmt walls then that can cause lots of condensation. But it being 1 area and a corner at that, then its most likely an outside problem as i explained above and you need to'define' exactly what `n where it is BEFORE spending 1 cent! Cannot stress this enough...and IMO, and without looking at your problem `n from what you`ve stated i can honestly say you do NOT need 'Any' inside dewatering method, you do NOT need 'any' inside drain tile or other method.
Run the hose....It doesnt lie!
And IF you do begin to see a lil more dampness when running the water, you will ONLY need the Corner Waterproofed...you do Not need 1 or 2 entire walls done...ok??
Inside dewatering or drain tile methods do NOT stop water-moisture from entering through Outside cracks and other openings, does Not prevent mold,does not keep Radon gas from entering through these outside openings, termites etc. Gotta go Outside to help stop these problems. you/anyone can call me if ya like
Posts: 710 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 24 August 2005
Congrats on your new home.Sorry,couldnt reply to both of you this morning, had to'get out the door'. Have you read the first part of this thread about correctly waterproofing...not damproofing, the outside of walls?
On brick basement walls the 'parging' that more-than-likely was done to the bsmt walls when home was built will sooner-later deteriorate & will cause problems. Peastone/gravel is BEST drainage agaisnt the outside of bsmt walls http://www.yodergroup.com/concrete.asp read 6th & 7th paragraphs or http://www.bobvila.com/ArticleLibrary/Task/Inspecting/FoundationFailure.html read where its absolutely true....'soils that apply least lateral load agst bsmt walls'
Folks, ask these 'inside companies' if ya have them over for an estimate if they help stop/prevent Radon gas from entering through Outside cracks `n openings, ask them if they Stop Water from entering through these cracks/openings, ask them if they stop termites-insects from entering through outside openings......and ask them if they REALLY relieve Outside Hydrostatic-lateral pressure that is agst the outside of bsmt walls, see what kinda truth or BS they give ya. ONLY...way to stop-help all these is from the.....right-EE--oo....Outside!
Posts: 710 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 24 August 2005
Hello LWP, Thank you so much for your expertise and your honesty. I did read most of your thread and will read more as soon as possible. To tell you the truth you really put the brakes on for me. You see, I also was one of those people that thought I could do the waterproofing from inside Boy was I wrong. Please let me know if I'am wrong on this one... I was told ? That my granite walls were 4ft. Thick and beveled outward at the very base, And digging this away would cause the foundation to shift and cause serious problems.If this is the case,And really I have no clue, How would I go about getting the bad soil away and adding pea stone / gravel? I know I must do this to correctly repair cracks etc. Thank you LWP in advance for any help you can give me on this one.
Hello LWP, Yes in fact the foundation is granite, But only aprox.4ft to grade, And 32"to sill plate with brick. Less digging thank goodness. Untill I start digging I won't know if the granite blocks are flush or do they protrude out into the yard like steps. If they do protrude outward what a job that would be to repair and waterproof. Not like a nice flat concrete wall. Also when it comes to backfilling that might be tricky. I want to do this correct as I will be doing the job myself. This home is 4600sq.ft with a full basement and full attic. I will be renovating the entire house and hope to get 6000sq.ft living area. I've been a carpenter for over 20yrs. but foundations are out of my league. Thank you agian for your wonderful help.
I wanted to thank you for your effort, time and patience in helping homeowners. My situtation: I am living near Toronto Just bought a 30 yr old brick a few months ago, backsplit with concrete block foundation walls & concrete floor Unfinished walls in basement (8 ft hi) & crawlspace (4 ft hi) Crawlspace has the following: Previous water stains (several feet in length) in a couple of sections on the wooden sill plate above the concrete blocks. Some moisture staining on inside walls below these sill plate water stains...no major dampness on walls....floor dampness in one corner ( 2" x 2 ft long ) ...no evident wall or floor leakage during major rains Outside grade slopes towards the house at these spots. Exterior concrete block mortar has some ventilation openings...ditto for the exterior bricks Some white efflorescense at various points in mid-wall and at the floor level running horizontally ( @ 4 ft )
The rest of the 8 ft basement does not show any of the above symptoms. My question...safe to assume water stains on sill plate caused by leakage occuring during spring snow melt?
Short term...wait to see if any leaks form on floor...then dig!!! Long term solution....dig now, check tiles, reparge & tar then backfill with proper clean gravel. I just insulated the crawlspace with 2 1/2" pink closed cell hardboard glued to the block walls and will dampness cause the insulation to come off?
water stains up high on inside of any wall means there is an opening(s) on the outside, `n where you see the stains inside the openings will be at that point...UP on the outside.
The effloresence could be from several things, may be from when home was built, from humidity, from crack/opening in wall below ground and/or opening(s) above ground.
The fact your grade is sloped towards house is not why `n how water can get in, sure it helps to raise grade and divert some water away, but water gets in through outside openings, & raising the grade does not seal these openings. Also important to seal these openings to help stop radon gas from entering, to stop termites/insects from entering. And some folks have crack(s) and bowing-movement of bsmt wall due to hydrostatic & lateral pressure that is outside agst the walls, so raising the grade,longer downspouts etc doesnt solve this issue either, know what i mean?
We have dug many walls where homeowners have already raised grade, extended downspouts,put in french drain,mudjacked slabs and even poured 2' concrete agst the bsmt wall in hopes of diverting water away But all these diverting techniques do not stop/keep all water away from the entire depth of bsmt wall.
Again...they may be successful in diverting 'some-surface-water' away from top 2' or so of wall, but on a lil longer or heavier rains these means will not keep all water away. Water will still go into the ground `n accumulate and wick-spread back Underneath these diverting means, back under the raised grade, back under driveways etc.
There is No Underground bias, no undergound slope. We often see the top 2-3' agst wall fairly dry, but when digging to foundation footing there can `n often be More water where cracks `n other openings exist in the foundation, where water enters `n can create a mold problem,efflorescence,insect entry, and certainly allow Radon inside.
I`d run a hose...a water test at ground level to see whether or not you have Any problem(s) below ground in yer walls. Run the water outside towards the wall where your stains appear inside & dont wet/splash anything above ground..bricks,bsmt windows etc. Run the water up to 1 hour, aimed towards the wall a few inches away.
If you see dampness or water entering then there is a problem with the bsmt wall `n needs to be correctly fixed. If there is No problem with the wall then you will not see dampness-water.
Same thing goes above ground, any opening(s) in mortar joints,aound bsmt windows and around & through any 'vertilated opening' can allow water inside and create efflorescence etc.
Again, raising the grade, extending downspouts etc AND any inside water divertiing methods do Not and will not seal outside openings in bsmt walls and openings above ground. These need to be sealed correctly to stop-prevent water entry,mold,radon gas insects etc....and some people only think about diverting water away and Not about radon gas/insects etc, know what i mean? Radon kills more people than drunk drivers each year.
Again, do the water test, it doesnt lie....waiting for a rain doesnt 'exactly' tell a homeowner how `n WHERE the water is coming in. On wind blown rains everything is getting wet at same time, sure water is agst the bsmt walls but water is also hitting the bricks,windows,doors and if there are openings in & around any of these then nobody is sure where the water actually entered on the outside, and thats all that matters....how exactly is water getting into the house! Through below ground cracks/openings, through above ground openings or......Both. hope this helps....i had posted few minutes ago and as i clicked-to-post my comp. freakin booted, Grrr.
Posts: 710 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 24 August 2005
while this guy seems quite knowledgable about building practices, he should leave waterproofing subject to others, reason being he recommends outside french drain instead of waterproofing the wall or part of wall where crack or other problem is, and when i called him out on this few days ago....that french drains do not fix-seal the cracks `n other openings where water enters, where insects enter,where radon gas enters & of course french drains do not solve/prevent hydrostatic-lateral pressure agst the outside of bsmt walls either, he immediately cut me off as i was explaining to him-his listeners that french drains is just another water diverting technique and doesnt SOlVE-STOP-SEAL THESE OUTSIDE CRACKS/OPENINGS/PRESSURE. Hey Tim, if yer gonna ask me to call yer show then give me the dang chance to fully explain each `n every point thoroughly! If you Really cared like YOU say, you would have allowed me the chance instead of cuttin` my azz off right at the point when i was about to explain the truth...which goes AGAINST what you write about `n state in yer articles...didnt wanna here the Truth did ya....exactly!
Hey, sure......everyone is entitled to their opinion but if yer going to use this to make money from others as a non-expert on a subject like bsmt waterproofing, well i think it sucks. Why mislead people,well intentioned or not,one can`t give the right answers `n whole story unless they`ve done it over time...and had to guarantee it an extended period of time....how the hlll wld these 2 know, a builder does Not make a waterproofing expert.
No wonder more `n more homeowners have more problems with leaky basements, mold on bsmt walls, higher radon gas levels in home, more problems with walls bowing in....they R getting the Wrong Information! And it pizzes me off to think all some people have to do is open their mouth, NOT bust their azz on the job for decades and LEARN the real truth, just open their trap because they have a radio show and masses of people will follow, will buy their how-to-do books-tips.....
french drain will STOP water from entering through cracks/etc huh Tim, radon,insects,hyd-lateral pressure huh? NOT! Well, those of you who have $4,997 can have dinner and 8 hours http://safe.spsp.net/cgi-bin/askbuilder/CONSULTDAY.htm
ran estimate this morning in Warren MI, homeowner still has leak in 1 corner after hiring an Inside company to fix it.
But thats not the entire problem with these poor people and MANY others!
Not only did these good folks get BS`d,misinformed etc on HOW to fix....inside err outside....they also got talked into having all 4 walls done from the Inside!
I think 3 Inside companies all went over there, plus myself back in the summer, Midwest Waterproofing,Insta Dry and Drip Dry. It probably looked to these folks that i was wrong `n didnt know what i was talkin` about being the Only contractor who exaplained to them all they needed to fix was the.... 1 corner on the Outside. I mean come on, they had 3 Inside comapnies bs`g & pushing their method against me, ya know?
Drip dry i think did the work `n it still leaks and like i say, they got BS`d into all 4 walls when the ONLY area, the Only seepage problem was in....1 corner.
And to string this whole thing along, G Haege recommends Midwest..and others, who bs people into work they do Not need, are you kidding me...lol, 1 corner leaking yet Haege`s recommendation of Midwest waterproofing and the FACT they tried to bs the homeowner into ALL 4 walls is what the heck i`m trying to expalin to people, got the Wrong people often providing the Wrong information.
I`m gonna keep pounding the FACTS.
Inside drain tile & dewatering methods do NOT Stop water from Entering through Outside cracks `n Other openings......thats how & why about 90% of people see/get water on their bsmt floor....hello?
Since Inside methods do Not Stop water from entering Your home, your walls, then it will also Not stop-prevent Mold, it will Not stop Radon gas from entering from the SOIL in-through these cracks & other openings! Same with termites/insects!
IF...if you have ONLY water coming up through floor cracks and have NO water coming from wall then you shld First get an honest/experienced Plumber to snake through the Storm trap....if you have one, often this is where a blockage-clog is and why water is accumulating & backing up under floor!! the plumber i recommend has freed many when Many of these homeowners Almost hired an Inside Co ta do their bllchtt when it was NOT necessary.If no storm trap or snaking doesnt free up blockage then you will most likely ONLY need a sump pump(S) to...control the Water level under the floor before it can accumulate/back up and rise up through floor cracks `n other openings in floor.
1 more thing...and think about this, when Inside Co`s do their thing, they NEED and divert water to a...sump pump, thats right, a sump pump, exactly what i said in last paragraph...got milk?
And lastly, Inside methods do NOT Stop/relieve Hydrostatic & lateral pressure that is........you guessed it, on the OUTSIDE of basement walls, and don`t forget tree roots, they also can cracks-push bsmt walls in. Now......How on this crazy planet is ANY inside company-method going to solve/prevent these problems, huh?
49 complaints in last 36 mths 'satisfactory record'! How many complaints does a company have to accumulate to be unsatisfactory...1,000?
13 complaints last 36 mth Everdry Waterproofing Toldeo,OH
5 complaints last 12 mth Everdry Waterproofing Fairfield,OH
9 complaints last 36 mth Everdry Waterproofing Mansfield,OH
7 complaints last 12 mth All Dry of Ohio Fairfield,OH
10 complaints last 36 mth J & D Hm Improvement/Waterproofing Reynoldsburg,OH
9 complaints last 36 mth Ram Jack of Illinois aka Safe-Guard Bsmt Tech Franklin Pk,IL
23 complaints last 36 mth Vulcan Basement Waterproofing of IL Rivergrove,IL
9 complaints last 36 mth Global Waterproofing Schaumburg,IL
34 complaints last 36 mth C & M Waterproofing aka Everdry Waterproofing St Lousi,MO ....they started business in Jan 2000 and have 34 complaints?? AND, they have a 'satisfactory record' with the BBB?? somebody smokin`weed err something, Really lookin` out for the Homeowners Huh?
6 complaints last 36 mth Everdry Waterproofing Grand Rapids,MI
9 complaints last 36 mth Instadry basement systems Romulus,MI
6 complaints last 12 mth Cox Waterproofing/Interstate Waterproofing Harrison Twp, MI
50 complaints last 36 mth Ever-dry Waterproofing Fort Wayne,IN
17 complaints last 36 mth Everdry Waterproofing of Michiana South Bend,IN
5 complaints last 36 mth All Dry of Evansville,IN
4 complaints last 36 mth Sanitred/Ideal Products Plymouth,IN
16 complaints last 36 mth Advanced Foundation Repair Dallas,TX
49 complaints last 36 mth Everdry Waterproofing Cranberry Twp,PA
12 complaints last 36 mth A Better Choice-Waterproofing N Huntingdon,PA
26 complaints last 36 mth Everdry Waterproofing Rochester,NY
16 complaints last 36 mth Everdry Waterproofing Waukesha,WI
5 complaints last 36 mth Aqua tech Remington,VA 'Unsatis'
B dry not 'that' bad huh
11 complaints last 36 mth B dry Waterproofing Medina,OH
7 complaints last 36 mth B dry Waterproofing Columbus,OH
6 complaints last 36 mth B dry of Metro Washington
9 complaints last 36 mth B dry of Delaware & Chester counties,PA
4 complaints last 36 mth B dry of western Ohio
....and let`s be honest, IF one is in business a looong time they 'might' have a problem or 2 in this case, 1 complaint maybe, 2 Tops. Not 1 or 2+ every year, shtt Some of us who`ve been in this business a looong time have 0.
12 complaints last 36 mth Seagate Foundation & Roofing Toledo,OH
19 complaints last 36 mth Champion Waterproofing Jeanette,PA
All ya need is phone number or company`s 'exact' name...i say that cuz there are MANY who are listed under several different names, some of the scammers are hard to find and some ya can`t find
this happens often, when a homeowner has just 1 problem area, 1 leak in 1 area, often they will get 3-5 estimates and when all except 1 tell you ya need an inside method along all 4 walls versus the 1 contractor who is being honest and trys to explain to you the only problem is the 1 area and thats all ya need to fix, well......of COURSE the estimates you get for the 4 walls on inside will Cost-MORE than fixing the 1 area.
Sooooooo, many people are led to believe or are told to.....Toss-out the LOWEST bid. You see where yer at now?
Not Only is the Homeowner gonna get screwed but so is the.....Honest Contractor , after being 100% honest he will Not get the job due to being the lowest bid.
And so it keeps going....the Inside companies find all kinds of lil ways to manipulate the language and get more `n more work and make more money to saturate the Tv & radio with even MORE advertising to bllchtt you! And have even more BIG Yellow Page ads.....who do YOU think is Really Paying for these very Costly ads? Not talkin` about several hundred or couple thousand dollars here.
Folks, ya can`t stop water from entering through cracks `n other various OUTSIDE openings from the....Inside of basement, its Impossible! And if yer Not going to Stop the Water from entering then yer Not going to Stop-prevent Mold `n termites-insects either.
And Radon? Its in the SOIL under the bsmt floor and OUTSIDE against the bsmt Walls. Most if not ALL Inside companies....leave the bottom 3-4 inches of cracks on the inside of basement walls....Open! And they drill holes in the bottom courses of block-walls. If your house in built on ground where radon is prevalent and you have a crack(s)-other openings in your basement wall `n getting water onto your bsmt floor then the ONLY method that will solve/stop these problems is an Outside method done `n backfilled correctly.
it`s quite frustrating being an honest contractor in This business
how does havin` 21 complaints in last 36 mth make this company so 'awesome' and be able to make the statement that what they do is a 'permanent solution' ? ....spread the Happy word?
Can someone help me on how to outline the techniques and sequence of construction processes involved when waterproofing the basement of a Victorian house to make it suitable for human occupation?? any advice would be great!
Human occupation, lol Whatcha got? Stone walls? Leaking from cold joint or? Or maybe you just have musty smell? Any mold,efflorescence? Do a Radon test yet? When ya have time let us know....
Posts: 710 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 24 August 2005
Whatcha got? Stone walls? Leaking from cold joint or? Or maybe you just have musty smell? Any mold,efflorescence? Do a Radon test yet? When ya have time let us know.... 