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  Bowing basement walls, water in basement after big storm
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Picture of Solon Homeowner
Posted
I hope someone can help me here because I am getting completely different answers from every waterproofer I bring over. Here's the situation:

I live in Northeast Ohio which just last week got nailed by some major storms. After the storms we had water in our basement (enough to soak the carpet but nothing really standing). Our basement consists of three separate rooms, only two of which are carpeted so those were wet while the uncarpeted utility area (back of the house) was dry, so we know the water probably came in from the front or the side of the house.

We are now bringing in people to look at our basement and we've heard everything from do just the inside to do the outside. While bringing in waterproofers a number of them noticed that we have two bowing walls in our basement utility room (back of the house has cracks which look like stairs that run atop some of the bricks along the wall, as well as some horizontal cracks, while the side of the house has horizontal cracks only). The bowing walls are more of a concern for me now though numerous waterproofers have said it's not necessary to do it immediately. I would rather get it repaired ASAP than risk having it get bigger.

Basically, I was hoping someone could tell me what to do. Do I need to completely waterproof the entire perimiter of the outside or can I just waterproof the two sides with bowing walls? This is the first time we have ever had water, as did many many people in our neighborhood which makes me think it was just a one time storm this size, which it really was, so I sometimes wonder if we even need to waterproof as some waterproofers themselves have said that waterproofing would not have stopped water from getting in our basement it was just that bad. The bowing wall needs to be taken care of in my opinion. Can we just take care of the walls from the outside without "waterproofing" or are the two acts one in the same? Additionally, what should it cost to do the outside per linear foot?

I guess I don't know how much I should do outside (all walls vs. just some) if any since this is the first time it's happened and if I can just fix the walls correctly without waterproofing. Any help would be much appreciated as well as any suggestions on good waterproofers in the Northeast Ohio area.

Thanks again ahead of time.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Solon Homeowner,
 
Posts: 67 | Registered: 29 June 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Posted Hide Post
You have two different problems, although they are probably related.

The major concern is the bowing walls, and some questions arise. (1)How old is the house? (2) What is the dimension from the ground outside to the basement floor? (3) What thickness of block were used in the walls? (4) Is the ground outside failry level, or does it slope? If it slopes. which way? Toward the basement walls, or away from them> (5) Whuch way do the first floor joists run relative to the bowing walls? Perpendicular to them, or parallel with them? (6) If the house is fairly new and you saw the construction, did the builders place the first floor framing and subfloor before backfilling the basement excavation?

Answer those and we can do some more educate guessing.

As for waterproofing, read the many posts here by "Licensed Waterproofer" and see if you're not convinced about the BEST way to deal with cracked or leaking foundations.


Architect (NY) and Home Designer (PA)
 
Posts: 2545 | Location: Tobyhanna, PA | Registered: 24 October 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Posted Hide Post
solon,

so you know, MOST-if not All basement walls were/are Only parged or damproofed when built and, were Not backfilled with peastone/gravel.. So, anyone, especially alot of these Inside Co`s who try `n tell you that Exterior Waterproofing won`t work etc is completely full of nonsense! Damproofing and backfilling w/same sit soil is a far cry from waterproofing `n backfilling w/all peastone.

Many,not all of these Inside Co`s do not want to or are Not capable of doing Exterior Waterproofing. This is why you/others will hear or get exterior waterproofing estimates that are out-of-sight,very high. And also why you are hearing various/different answers Wink

Many salespeople have been told/trained one thing....that is to push/bs/mislead and sell sell sell the inside drain tile or baseboard systems w/sump and many also actually believe its what is best for you and that it somehow stops/prevents water from entering cracks `n other outside openings `n somehow stops/relieves lateral `n hydrostatic soil pressure,which does indeed cause basement walls to crack, leak, bow. I`ve got news for them...it doesn`t!

Don`t believe me? thats ok Big Grin

Read following from OTHERS to help you understand what is best to help stop/prevent/lessen/relieve soil pressure and stop water from entering

Please read 6th paragraph...
http://www.yodergroup.com/concrete.asp

http://www.al-home-inspections.com/news-articles/article-4.html

http://askthebuilder.com/NH058-_-_Waterproofing_Foundations.shtml

http://www.bobvila.com/HowTo_Library/Why_Foundations_Fa...oundation-A2095.html

This city not too far from you, see what 'they' say...scroll down to -WET BASEMENTS
questions 1) are sumps allowed? and 5) what if problem is not related to surface grading and water is leaking through foundation?

http://www.shakeronline.com/dept/building/FAQ.asp

http://www.fanninremodeling.com/floodbasement.pdf

-Why worry about water/moisture in basement
scroll to -Possible causes
...Hydrostatic pressure..."Rainwater seeps into soil and builds up pressure against your foundation walls. This hydrostatic pressure can exert tons of force on your foundation"

"Cracked and buckled walls- Hydrostatic pressure can press against your foundation walls, even buckling of the walls and flooding. Heavy wet soil continually presses against your foundation walls...."

to try `n answer your questions from afar...
...can you just waterproof the two-sides, the bowing walls? Yes

...can you just take care of walls from outside without waterproofing or do the two acts one is same? Well, you can do whatever you like, its your home. The two acts really should be done together because there is-are cracks on the Outside of bsmt wall(s) and not waterproofing the walls would be a complete mistake. Why would any company recommend not waterproofing a wall or any homeowner not want it waterproofed and only try `n brace it, pier it etc is a very big gamble, like i say, the wall is bowing in-has step/vertical/horizontal cracks etc where water/moisture enters into hollow-block,imo.....BIG mistake not waterproofing it.

We`ve seen quite a few homeowners who have hired certain companies to install helical piers and/or, want to use wall anchors and so on and Not waterproof and backfill w/gravel. This was a big mistake as more rain in coming months,year etc caused the ground/soil to continue to expand and contract, some also had tree roots that also helped cracked `n push basement walls in further. So walls did get worse/deteriorate and, they leaked.

They got worse and leaked due to Not waterproofing and leaving the same soil/roots against the outside of the basement walls which is what caused the problem is the first place!

These guys are in Ohio, read what they say

http://www.integritywaterproofing.com/wst_page5.html

http://www.nachi.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5448

If you wish you can call me, here to try `n help when i can, let me know

This message has been edited. Last edited by: LicensedWaterproofer,
 
Posts: 710 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 24 August 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of Solon Homeowner
Posted Hide Post
Thank you very much for all the input. Pretty much everything you said is what I thought. I still have a number of questions that I would really like to ask you if you wouldn't mind. I can be reacxhed via e-mail at dlantsberg@hotmail.com if you'd be willing to give me your contact informatioon to discuss offline. Thank you again
 
Posts: 67 | Registered: 29 June 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Picture of Solon Homeowner
Posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by LicensedWaterproofer:
solon,

so you know, MOST-if not All basement walls were/are Only parged or damproofed when built and, were Not backfilled with peastone/gravel.. So, anyone, especially alot of these Inside Co`s who try `n tell you that Exterior Waterproofing won`t work etc is completely full of nonsense! Damproofing and backfilling w/same sit soil is a far cry from waterproofing `n backfilling w/all peastone.

Many,not all of these Inside Co`s do not want to or are Not capable of doing Exterior Waterproofing. This is why you/others will hear or get exterior waterproofing estimates that are out-of-sight,very high. And also why you are hearing various/different answers Wink

Many salespeople have been told/trained one thing....that is to push/bs/mislead and sell sell sell the inside drain tile or baseboard systems w/sump and many also actually believe its what is best for you and that it somehow stops/prevents water from entering cracks `n other outside openings `n somehow stops/relieves lateral `n hydrostatic soil pressure,which does indeed cause basement walls to crack, leak, bow. I`ve got news for them...it doesn`t!

Don`t believe me? thats ok Big Grin

Read following from OTHERS to help you understand what is best to help stop/prevent/lessen/relieve soil pressure and stop water from entering

Please read 6th paragraph...
http://www.yodergroup.com/concrete.asp

http://www.al-home-inspections.com/news-articles/article-4.html

http://askthebuilder.com/NH058-_-_Waterproofing_Foundations.shtml

http://www.bobvila.com/HowTo_Library/Why_Foundations_Fa...oundation-A2095.html

This city not too far from you, see what 'they' say...scroll down to -WET BASEMENTS
questions 1) are sumps allowed? and 5) what if problem is not related to surface grading and water is leaking through foundation?

http://www.shakeronline.com/dept/building/FAQ.asp

http://www.fanninremodeling.com/floodbasement.pdf

-Why worry about water/moisture in basement
scroll to -Possible causes
...Hydrostatic pressure..."Rainwater seeps into soil and builds up pressure against your foundation walls. This hydrostatic pressure can exert tons of force on your foundation"

"Cracked and buckled walls- Hydrostatic pressure can press against your foundation walls, even buckling of the walls and flooding. Heavy wet soil continually presses against your foundation walls...."

to try `n answer your questions from afar...
...can you just waterproof the two-sides, the bowing walls? Yes

...can you just take care of walls from outside without waterproofing or do the two acts one is same? Well, you can do whatever you like, its your home. The two acts really should be done together because there is-are cracks on the Outside of bsmt wall(s) and not waterproofing the walls would be a complete mistake. Why would any company recommend not waterproofing a wall or any homeowner not want it waterproofed and only try `n brace it, pier it etc is a very big gamble, like i say, the wall is bowing in-has step/vertical/horizontal cracks etc where water/moisture enters into hollow-block,imo.....BIG mistake not waterproofing it.

We`ve seen quite a few homeowners who have hired certain companies to install helical piers and/or, want to use wall anchors and so on and Not waterproof and backfill w/gravel. This was a big mistake as more rain in coming months,year etc caused the ground/soil to continue to expand and contract, some also had tree roots that also helped cracked `n push basement walls in further. So walls did get worse/deteriorate and, they leaked.

They got worse and leaked due to Not waterproofing and leaving the same soil/roots against the outside of the basement walls which is what caused the problem is the first place!

These guys are in Ohio, read what they say

http://www.integritywaterproofing.com/wst_page5.html

http://www.nachi.org/forum/showthread.php?t=5448

If you wish you can call me, here to try `n help when i can, let me know




So, I contacted one more person, actually one of the licks you gave me in the above post. They again said that I should do it on the inside because only 3 of my four walls are actually accessible from the outside (since I have a slab one of the drain tiles is between the slab and the rest of the house). They also said that they could dig the outside of the house and take care of the bowing walls without actually waterproofing. I guess they would do this by cleaning the wall and then putting down gravel as opposed to what is in the ground right now. Any thoughts?
 
Posts: 67 | Registered: 29 June 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Posted Hide Post
solon,

first let me say, i do Not know those guys, i just posted link to shed a lil more insight of the 'inside guys frame of mind'.

so, they say they can dig the outside WITHOUT waterproofing the walls? lololol

Why would ANYONE do that? Why would they go through the process of excavation and NOT waterproof the cracks `n any other openings in basement walls? wowie zowie! Water will still enter the block walls, increase chance of mold,mildew,efflorescence,insetc and radon gas.

I though you were looking into getting 2 walls done? Something changed?

Remeber, using heavy equipment near the basement walls could cause enough underground lateral surcharge pressure `n further widen any cracks/damage wall. Many want to use equipment because its much easier for THEM, it is Not what is best for the homeowner, the basement wall, the grass etc, some just don`t want to put forth the extra effort. No way i would leave cracks open, nope. Care to call and discuss this?
 
Posts: 710 | Location: Michigan | Registered: 24 August 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Posted Hide Post
I live in Lansdowne pa. this is area that is notorious for sump pumps and I hear there are supposed to be springs under some homes. Ok I'll narrow it down my street is near the Darby creek. i've lived here for 4 years. and it is a 55 year old home. My home is a Concrete based nad I had very shabby windows in the basement when I moved in.

Oh and the home is a twin. and that is where My water trouble begins, suprisingly enough. Or should I say baffling enough. Now directly in line with party wall is the 4th window that has a window well. meaning it's that window that normally has the dome over it so the water doesnt get in.

Well, I changed the 4 windows in the basement. which by the way were leaking like crazy. I changed the windows in the Spring to Glass block. And when that was done, I did the building up of 2 of the windows because there were 2 others that were below ground level.

well, that water has since stopped. And we've had major rains and I've seen no water in the basement. I've had countless so called waterproofing pros come in and they all told me you need a sump and a trench dug around with a hefty price attached. Now I know of people who dont have a sump and they are fine. and from one of the contractors I was told that my water troubles are coming from that 4th window that is in line with the party wall.

someone told me that the water is coming into the base of the window and its going beneath the home and coming up at the weakest point. they also said that I need to handle the outside before dealing with the inside. I'm so turned around now, but I do have my own opinion on this. I feel that I should address the outside issues and then get the sump and trench put in. but I would love to hear your expert advice. Please help.
 
Posts: 1 | Registered: 28 July 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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