I live in a suburb of Chicago. My house is 52 years old. We have a full basement and it is partially finished. When we moved here we were told of a leak in the South wall that happened rarely; only during big storms. That was in the Fall.

In the Spring it was really, really wet and we had water coming in on the North and South sides. We called about 6 waterproofers and got HORROR stories. Estimates were wide ranging. We finally settled on a company that injected some type of foam into the cracks. The did all of the crack in the basement they could find charging about $75 per crack.

However, a big storm came up shortly after and it leaked on the South wall again (this area is all behind paneling). The company came out again and we put a hose on the foundation outside for about 4 hours. The guys came back and said we had a problem at the point where the floor meets the wall. Cost to repair $2500 for drain system and sump pump. I was not home and did not see where they "looked" to determine this...

We declined and attmpted to "live with it" and also graded the landscaping and added extensions to the downspouts.

Another point, for some reason, this house has no sump pump/pit. I guess it was not code when the house was built.

Last Friday we had a huge storm and lots of rain. One of the downspout extensions fell off and water was surely going right up against the foundation. We had some water coming in at the same point (always the same place, near the middle of the room at the floor). I decided to see for myself where the water was coming from.

I pulled the paneling and saw that the water appears to be coming from a crack that was repaired by our contractor, but at the bottom of the crack near where it meets the floor. At this point they had cut the 2x4 framing at the floor and I could seek water seeping in in that area. There was no "cement" over the foam in that area (cement covers the entire crack above the area w/plastic tubes every foot or so).

So, after this long story...

Is this a problem that can be fixed with a "proper" application of the foam type injection used before? How can I tell if these guys were really right or just trying to upsell me?

It's not much water that gets in, probably less than a gallon, but it drives me crazy.

Thanks for your comments and suggestions...

Art R

Art,

you say Seller disclosed the South-wall problem but not the North so...seems as though they left you with more problems areas than disclosed.

and you had about 6 different estimates with the usual 'horror story'.

finally, you decided on a waterproofing company (supposed experts right?)... who recommended to you the use of foam in cracks on the inside of basement, apparently this was not the remedy......it never has been.

Now, the SAME company comes back after further problems/leaks and changes their tune. Now they say you need an inside system `n sump.

Sure seems to me they did not DIAGNOSE the problems/leaks correcty on first estimate, why believe what they say now?

Raising the grade and sloping away is ok BUT, this does NOT seal-waterproof the cracks in basement walls! It doesn`t stop/pohibit/prevent water from entering and so it also won`t stop/prevent mold,efflorescence,possibility of radon gas from entering these cracks that are still...open. Termites-insects can also enter through these same cracks or other openings in walls. Raising the grade `n sloping will only help divert some 'surface water' away from house, there is NO underground slope,NO underground bias.It cannot and will not keep all water away from entire depth of basement walls.

To repeat, sounds like the Seller did not disclose ALL problems-leaks, i`d go back on THEM for cost to correctly fix/waterproof undisclosed areas of wall.And the company you hired....seems they are more than a couple sandwiches short of a picnic. The $75 per crack could have `n should have gone to a long term SOLUTION.

Art...block or poured bsmt walls?

You are right, I should have gone after them. It's too late now; 2 year limit to sue. Foundation walls are poured concrete.

North wall seems fine now, but after reading more, I realize it may just be temporary. Other cracks fixed, weren't actually leaking! They got me.

I believe it's only this one crack on the South wall. To be sure will be hard as I'll have to pull all the paneling down to see.

The crack was "fixed" by some prior owner with waterproofing paint and they by my contractor with the injection method.

Uggh! What steps do you suggest to diagnose the extent of the problem? Once known, what should I do?

AR

ps Was just in Michigan last weekend visiting family.

art,

run a hose at ground level against bsmt wall directly on outside of where you get water inside/evidently where crack is.Do not soak/splash bricks/window etc above ground.Run the water up to hour or until you get water in/through crack/at cold joint. This is to be sure the problem is the crack that was not yet fixed/waterproofed from outside before you bought home. If it leaks then i`d recommend you have it waterproofed from the outside, hand-dig to footing, haul soil away,scrape `n brush wall,open crack up a bit with a brick hammer, fill crack(and any other openings in wall) w/hydraulic cement,apply thick asphalt-tar on all of exposed wall,apply 6 mil visqueen over tar,backfill w/100% peastone to within a few inches of grade,top soil rest....OR...

If you want to chance it, a lil risky, find an honest company to give you estimate on injecting crack. About 50-60% of injected cracks will leak again,some on next decent-long rain, some within year or 2,some last 5-10 yrs. Here is a company that does injections, but will tell you the following....

http://www.suredrybasements.com/sureDryCrackRepair.html

3rd & 4th para`s "we have had to watch as continued structural movement and further concrete shrinkage have RE-opened Cracks to Leak. Injection alone cannot provide a LASTING Solution as Cracks get Larger and SOIL expansion and contraction CAUSE the foundation to shift & settle"

Now, if you do not leak after running water-test then something was done in past to fix the crack,possibly outside and there must be an opening(s) around/near the crack on outside....it`ll be near ground level and/or UP. Some opening include mortar joints,gaps along brick ledge(top of poured wall),bsnt windows,any window w/screen,doors & thresholds `n so on. More so than not its the crack in the basement wall.

If you decide on outside repair, and the crack is a vertical crack and not a longer diagonal crack then all you need done/waterproofed is 5-6' linear(along the wall) and ALL the way Down.Depending on depth to footing...should cost $775 to 950.That hole can be hand dug in 30-60 minutes, entire job should be about 2-3 hours.

One of my guys was in Rockford over weekend.

After the last storm (Friday) I pulled 2 section of the paneling. This is how I found that a prior owner had tried to use waterproof paint on the - inside - of the foundation.

My contractors also tried to repair this vertical crack with their injection method.

I did not get to watch them when the work was done originally.

I did see water seeping in from the bottom of the crack where the wall meets the floor. I assume this is the cold joint?

Interestingly, the cement that my contractor used to seal the crack prior to injection stopped about 2-3 inches above the cold joint. There is foam there, but no cement. It is at or near the floor that the water was coming out.

I can see this because someone (I assume my contractor) removed about 8 inches of the bottom framing to expose the cold joint.

I'd prefer to fix this for good, but cost is a factor too. But, I don't want to pay now and pay more later, so I understand doing it from outside is the best option.

Questions:

If the cold joint is leaking will the injection method work at all? (I was told no by my contractors, right before they tried to sell me an inside "system").

Since this leak is at the bottom of a vertical crack, do I need to remove the framing to expose all of the cold joint to be sure it's not coming in somewhere else too?

The reason for the second question is that the water leaks out from behind the wall about 2 or 3 feet away from the crack, but I assume it migrates there because of the base moulding and paneling. I guess it may become evident after the hose test...

Sorry for so many questions, but I feel betrayed and lied to by my first contractor and I won't make a mistake again!

AR

ar,

yes, with vertical cracks you can get water at cold joint. see, water can/will enter THROUGH the crack depending on size-width. some cracks can be thinner/hairline at top of wall and WIDER in middle or bottom of wall and so, when a crack is wider near middle-bottom then thats why some homeowners will see water on Inside near bottom of wall or at cold joint, depends on the crack.

to be certain there are no other problems/cracks/rod holes in this wall it would be best to view the wall.

My plan is to do the following:

1. When I have time and am at home (Saturday) I'll run the hose on the foundation at or near the crack and wait...

2. I'll view the crack while doing this and see where water comes from. If only from the bottom of the crack where it meets the cold joint, I'll probably stop.

3. If I see water coming from other areas along the cold joint, I'll have to pull down the framing to view the area more completely (unless by some chance I can use a flashlight to peer behind the framing, but it is a tight spot.

4. Once I determine the exact location of the water entry, I"ll sleep better! And then I'll start making calls to some contractors.

What do you think of my plan?? BTW, thanks very, very much for your advice and your contributions to the forum. Truly a service to homeowners.

AR

A question you have probably answered before - sorry.

If the leak is the cold joint, can the outside repair method fix that too?

Thanks..

AR

p.s. planning to hose test tomorrow. how long do I leave the hose on for??

ar,

yes, if you are getting water INSIDE basement at/along the cold joint at bottom of crack, an outside method done-correctly will certainly fix the crack/leak.

run the water up-to an hour. if the crack was NOT repaired on outside by a prior owner/contractor then most likely the crack is the problem-is whats allowing water to enter and come onto floor at/near cold joint.it`ll most likely take less than an hour to begin to see water inside. run the water at/near full blast, aimed at wall,few inches away. again, only soak the ground along the wall where crack is, don`t wet anything above-ground.

I finally had time to run the 'hose test' on the foundation. I ran the hose for an hour before I was able to see any seepage.

From my vantage point, I saw water coming from the cold joint (where the floor and wall meet). I thought for certain it would be from the "repaired" crack, but it was not. It's about 18 inches away from it and it appears to be leaking along an 18 inch section.

Unfortunately, there is 2x4 faming in the way and I was not really able to inspect the actual joint, but I did get a pretty good look behind it and down along the joint in a few places. I even used a mirror to give me an angle to view.

Again, I thought for certain it would be the crack, but it was dry. The proximity of the leak to the crack fooled me.

Now that I know...and I might cut out the framing and do it again just to make 100% certain....what is my best choice..??

Thanks.

AR

ps Sorry it took so long to get around to this..

One other observation. The leak is centered just over where one of the screws is drilled into the floor holding the 2x4 framing to the floor. I doubt enough water came out of the hose to go under the slab and up through the hole....would the hole even be that deep? I'm a novice, so please forgive my dumb questions.

AR

hi art,

ok, your sure its Not the crack,good.

look very closely behind the 2 x 4....is there a leaky area just above floor, a rod hole?

My close observation is that the water appeared to forming in the joint where the wall meets the floor. I am pretty sure there is not another crack or rod hole. At least from my lay perspective...


AR

Dear LWP,

I want to try to do this myself. Can you provide some instructions or direct me to a link of same?

Thanks.

AR

art,

i may have missed soemthing...

do? ya mean, fix problem, its just that we`re not sure what the problem(s) is...right?

if its a rod hole, sure thats no problem to fix. i would take that 2 x 4 off and closely look at wall and re-do hose test if need be.

you want to certain what problem is, first.

does it appear that someone patched-parged over an area of that wall, like over a hairline vertical crack? call me if you wish, let me know and i`ll post number

You're right...I'm ahead of myself. I'll attempt to remove the 2x4 at floor level to positively identify the source. When I have the results, I'll post them. May take a few days...

AR

Well it took a while, but I was able to take down the paneling, remove about 3 feet of the 2x4 along the floor and....it rained. It rained alot. Probably 10 hours or more and heavy.

Unfortunately, I was at work. My wife inspected the area and sure enough water. She agreed with me that it was coming from the joint where the wall meets the floor. We caught it after it has seeped a while. It seeps in slowly, so it was virtuall impossible to see exactly at which point on the wall the water started to come in. But it appears to effect a 2.5 foot section of the wall.

Interestingly, I found a very slight and hard to discover hairline crack going vertically from a patched rod hole to about the middle of the problem area.

So, it would seem to follow that it is either the joint somewhere along the 2.5 foot section or the crack.

Question. Can a hairline crack like that cause this seepage?

I assume I need to further pinpoint the problem - yet again - before you can advise me. Just thought I'd give you an update.

Thanks...

AR