"I also know that "waterproofing" is done on the outside. I have actually seen it done where they excavate around the house and spray an ashpalt coating on the foundation."
That asphalt coating is NOT waterproofing, especially not a spray coating, which is barely thicker than paint. That stuff is DAMPproofing only, and it does not waterproof a wall. The tried-and-true method of WATERproofing is an applied membrane, and there are many other measures that must be taken as well.
What contractors like LicensedWaterproofer do is an adaptation of very expensive and highly detailed and intricate commercial-building foundation waterproofing methods to residential work. Residential basements are not as deep as many commercial buildings, which can have several sub-basements that extend dozens of feet below the water table, where pressures are enormous.
Residential basements extend anywhere from three to eight feet into the ground, so the pressures are much less, if there are any at all, and therefore a heavy coating of dampproofing compund and a simple polyethylene membrane, combined with a porous backfill such as pea gravel, are, except in the most extreme cases, quite sufficient to end basement water problems for the remaining life of the building, and often at hugely less expense than inside systems that do not cure any diseases at all.
Architect (NY) and Home Designer (PA)
Posts: 2564 | Location: Tobyhanna, PA | Registered: 24 October 2005
Hi, I use the basement doctors.. I think I would have to double check! They first quoted me a price just over 14,000 - then we told them no way. They sent out the cousin to the owner who settled on a price of 7,000 to fix the basement. This was just to fix the water issues, not mold remediation. They did use some sort of spray on a couple areas that had some mold growth. The job is a rather inexpensive one, the tough thing is the labor...they supposively sealed off the area and ran filtration system to keep the dust down but, it was everywhere. They dug out around the foundation on the inside of the house, laid stone, pvc pipe and inserted two subpumps. They then put in a plastic shield agaist the wall to catch any water that may come in from the wall and covered it with cement. They also put up a coat of drylock about 2 foot high and went on their way. I did have them come back to fix an issue of water and they just add my drylock to the area. So far the basement is dry and the subpumps are working. Just do not pay much more then 7 thous to have it fixed! They alot of times send out someone who work on commissions! It is almost like buying a car - talk them down/ find a bottom line. As they will tell you that you only have a few days to act on the price they are offering. During the winter they will be a bit slower and are looking for the work! Good luck! ~J
John~ I had moisture problems in my sunken Den as well, and this is what happened: my husband cut away the dry wall about 3' high, and removed the insulation from just the wet sections. Then we put a large dehumidifier in the room and let it work for 3 days. After everything was dried out, we took a bottle of Bleach water with some white vinegar in it and sprayed it on the moldy parts. Kills it just fine and wipes right off! We also sealed the cracks we found in our cinder blocks (which are known for their leaking problems) with some concrete caulk, painted over the cinder blocks with "Dry-Lok" waterproofing sealant, reinstalled a roll of new insulation, and put a couple of sheets of news drywall up and mudded it together. We also checked the outside of the house and discovered a large crack on our patio that we filled with the concrete caulk and dug a trench and filled it with some plastic ribbed piping that runs the length of the house down to the curb. You can't really see it because it's level with the ground and it runs right next to the house, but it really helps with the drainage and getting the water away from the house. It was a cheap fix because we did it ourselves. I think we MIGHT have spent $300 total. We DID have to have the carpet re-stretched out over the tack strips, however. I hope this helps!
Big John - I've read over your emails and have a question for you and the rest of the board. Everyone seems to be assuming that the water is coming from outside the home? Has anyone checked to see if there are leaks from the upstairs bathrooms, kitchen, or from the lower level laundry roo? In a typical New England Split the washer & dryer are on the lower level. I've heard stories like this from fellow military friends while their soldiers were deployed. One case did involve a crack in the foundation - the other - was a faulty seal from the upstairs toilet. The water found it way across the floor boards and then down behind the drywall in the lower level family room. Has anyone pulled down sheet rock to see where the moisture was actually coming from? We have a finished walk out basement with baseboard heat. Discovered water in the basement when we first bought the house six years ago - pulled down the drywall to discover they had patched a crack in the foundation with autobody fiberglass! A BIG NO-NO! Had the job fixed professionally from the outside - but got the same deal as you - about 6 different answers to our problem from 6 diffent companies. Including french drains on the inside! I contacted every single referance that they gave me from every company. Eventually went with the local guys from town because they had the best references and the BBB didn't have one negative thing to say about them. Haven't had a leak since! However, in the summer time - no a/c in the basement and the moisture level zooms up - we finally got rid of a 10 year old dehumidifier and replaced it with an energy efficient model this past summer! Talk about a difference. Since this winter in NE has been so mild - we've kept the thing turned on just to be on the safe side and I'm allergic to mold!
OH, regarding the mold issue - have you contacted your insurance company? Believe it or not - they can give you recommendations for folks that they use for this kind of repair. When we had a flood condo basement years ago we got a team that took care of cleaning up after floods & fires. They came out for three days - the first day was to remove stuff. The second day was to come wash everything down and set up fans & dehumidifiers. The next day they came back with a chemical spray and told us and the kdis to stay out of the basement for the remainer of the week. My husband was allowed down only if he he used his respirator from the military. Had to have them come back out two weeks later because we had white fluffy mold growing on the cement floor. One more wash and a quick spray took care of that problem.
Regarding your mold problem, first you need to find a Member Contrractor of the Comfort Institute. you can have a test run on your home to find out what is causing the (yucky growing stuff), it is usually caused by too much humidity, sometimes caused by over sized A/C or heater units, if there are no leaks when it rains or is extremely wet (during rainy season), I would lean toward the A/C or heating unit and realize that if the wall is reaching dew point on the back of your wall, no amount of waterproofing is going to stop the mold from returning even if you replace the sheetrock and seal the walls.. also if you are keeping the temperature set at or below dew point it is going to cause the problem to return. Good luck.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: kc4ugo,
There you see a member of an organization that posts a clear and detailed explanation about possible causes of mold, which has the ring of truth, unlike members of other organizations who won't DARE post clear, detailed explanations of their supposed area of "expertise". I hope regular readers of this forum are beginning to see who can be believed, as opposed to those who give nothing that can be believed.
Architect (NY) and Home Designer (PA)
Posts: 2564 | Location: Tobyhanna, PA | Registered: 24 October 2005
First of all, any qualified mold remediation professional will find the source of moisture, and recommend the correct way to fix that. That is the most important part of the problem. Any mold professional will tell you that. Second of all, remediation of mold can be costly if done correctly. Ask what if any precautions are going to be takin to protect the spores from going into other areas of the house. The spores are the dangerous part of mold. Even dead spores can be deadly to some people. If the basement of the house is gutted, this could spread the spores throughout. Are the ducts of the house going to be sealed and cleaned afterward? The best way to find a qualified professional is to go to www.iaqa.org or you can reach it through my website www.gotmoldcalljohn.com or feel free to email me through the link. Best of luck.
I'd like ot offer a few comments. I have looked over some, but not all of the replies. While most are good information (although I would be suspicious of miraculous devices or products to get rid of mold, and which have names or mechanisms that cannot be found in any dictionary) none of the responses that I looked at mention the most basic, easiest and least expensive remedies. Find out where the water is coming from. in many cases, the source of the problem is gutters that are overflowing, downspouts that discharge next to the foundation, bad grading or low spots that allow water to colect near the house. None of these should require excavating or breaking up a slab to conctruct a drainage system. If there is a high water table, then the more expensive drainage systems & sump pumps may be needed.
The basics of mold cleanup involve: 1) Finding and fixing the moisture problem (not always easy) 2)REMOVAL of the mold in a safe way, protecting workers, the building/room and its contents, and occupants. Killing the mold may make you feel good, but dead mold can still cause allergic reactions and other problems.
Once (If) the problem is solved, and you decide to finish tha basement again, do the folowing; 1) Aply 2" thick EXPANDED polystyrene to the foundation wall. This will 'breathe' moisture and let the wall dry. 2) construct a 2X wall. Use treated lumber for the sill plate. and place a closed cell sill sealer strip beneath to block moisture. Finish with drywall. Do not use any poly, oil based paint or vinyl wallpaper. The wall should ba llowed to breathe. (See detals in the Feb- Mar '05 issue of Fine Homebuilding.)
I have just retired from Rutgers Cooperative Extension, where I worked on these and related issues for many years. Take a look at my fact sheet on basement moisture at: http://www.rcre.rutgers.edu/pubs/publication.asp?pid=FS257 Also see the excellent EPA booklet (48 pages)on fixing mold problems: Mold Remediation in Schools and Comercial Buildings (just type the title into Google). Nearly all the info here applies to Homes as well. After reading this, you cn deal intelligently with mold contractors. If you know more than they do, find someone else. The NJ Dept of Health & Senior Services (609) 631-6749) provides lists of contractors and consultants that have demonstrated some basic qualifications.
re mold testing: if you smell it, you've got it. Mold testing is appropriate when a lawsuit is involves, or when a doc asks for it, but is of little halp in solving the problem. the good tests are expensive; better to spend your money elsewhere. Regards, Joe
An interesting discussion- just goes to show how much information is out there, some good, and some bad. I am a homeowner, not a builder, but I am a nurse. Mold can be deadly. It spreads by releasing small microscopic spores into the air, and is inspired (breathed in) by any person or animal. The spores can immediately grow into mold inside the lungs, central nervous system (brain & spine), or any other part of the body, or they can lay there, dormant (not active), until some other time in the life of the victim. The symptoms of a fungus infection are also insidious (not always obvious), therefor extremely difficult to diagnose, and more difficult to cure. The cleanup, removal of the mold should be done by only those trained, so that it doesn't release the mold into the air, and into your family's lungs. It will be evident that these guys know what they will be doing, because they will have a license in hazardous waste cleanup & removal, and will set up to quarantine the work area, and will be wearing respirators & full body gear. DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS YOURSELF! Your local licensing board should have records who has up-to-date licenses in Hazardous Waste Materials. They should be available at your local City Hall, and if not there, the City or County Inspectors will be able and willing to tell you where to go next. I believe that this should probably be covered by some type of your Homeowners or Personal Health Insurance - I would try anyway, since you will only get sicker if you continue to live with it, and the resale value of your home is Nothing, as long as the mold is present. Either way, both insurance companies have allot to loose if the problem isn't remedied. Once the substrate that the mold grows on, is removed, then the source of the moisture needs to be addressed & repaired. I highly doubt that one company will be able to do both the correct procedure for removal of the mold, and repair of the moisture in your basement, but there are many Contractors / Builders available that know how to build a water-tight foundation, probably more than know how to correctly remove the mold. I think the advice of Richard Hetzel, is probably the most sound from what I know. Good Luck!
First things first. Define "very bad mold problem". It has been my experience that most people think they have a "bad mold problem" when in reality they don't. Common sense is your best guide. If you or someone in your family gets ill or experiences symptoms (many and varied) every time they go into the basement and then the symptoms resolve after leaving the basement, then probably the basement is the location of the problem. Next is it mold? or one of a number of other problems? Bacteria, also exacerbated by damp conditions, or perhaps do you have animals(cats or dogs) that reside down there? Animal dander can also be a source of allergenic symptoms. Insects are also on the damp list, and are equally problematic. One thing is for sure do not waste your time or money on air testing for mold, especially if you can actually see any mold growth. "experts" will tell you, just because it looks like mold is not proof, only a lab can positively identify mold. True enough, but totally useless information in most cases, and can be expensive. Unless you are in the middle of litigation or trying to identify for specific health concerns, what types if any fungi are there. Air testing is a very good way to add useless and confusing information to an already complicated situation. The basics everyone has previously mentioned are correct. 1, Identify the source or sources (frequently more than one) of the moisture. This will probably involve the removal of the already damaged or suspect materials. * USE CAUTION AND PROPER PERSONAL PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT, TRY AND CONTAIN ANY FURTHER CONTAMINATION BY SEALING OFF KNOWN "DIRTY" AREAS FROM CLEAN* 2, Repair the problem or problems. confirm success of the repairs by water testing if possible prior to rebuilding.3, Completely and thoroughly dry out the wet areas. 4, Use preventative measures to insure a clean and dry environment to prevent future problems. Anti microbials or "magic sprays" do have a place in any remediation, and can be used during several phases of the project. They are not really magic sprays and should never be used in place of any of these steps, but rather as an aid to them. Necessary? No. Beneficial? I believe so. Do not take my word or anyone elses' either. Do your own research, but sometimes it does boil down to a trust factor. Ask for references and use them. If someone tells you something works, them ask where has it worked before and contact those references. There's obviously much more to the story, but this should be enough to keep you out of the hands of unscrupulous contractors. Good Luck, Mark
Big John, you have gotten a lot of good Sujestions, Rich Ketsel, Joe P, have good info even joe home owner's wife. however no proper rebuilding solutions. As for getting real certified professionals it is very tough because all licenced companys do not take any professional testing to prove their ability to perform the services they sell, Not many states test their Contractors like Cali or florida, as such as NY or Nj should, My self being a LI, NY Contractror for 20 yrs would welcome the Cali tough licences to ensure the homeowners have true QUALIFIED professionals doing the work for them. A home today is a small environment and each diffrent location in the country the home react diffrently. However the same principals work in all. I have no products to sell to you as some people post in remarks or recomendations to get work.
Simple Practice to solve your problem: 1- Find and eliminate water or moisture 2- Remediate any mold problems See EPA website for recomended removal requirements, several levels are recomended small + a few SF to large is requiring a MEGA CLEAN UP ( HAZMAT) All basement water proofing does not have to be done on the exterior, several crystaline methods can work very well on poured walls, block are more problems, exterior spray on ruberized/ polymer coatings work well from the exterior, 3- Eliminate all mold food sources, NO wood or paper,( reg sheetrock a NO NO!!!) or MOISTURE a- no fiberglass, traps moisture in fluffy mas and makes micro climates use closed cell spray foam to coat concrete to eliminate dew point @ the concrete wall creating condensation behind the S/R -4 NO PAPER - USe MOLD resistant wood or sheetrock, Gp has no paper Dens Armor plus a fiberglass faced s/r or HuMITECK a treated s/r or USG has XP a Purple color treated s/r for mold & moisture.
- Condition the space, Heat and air conditioner is best, if hydronic ( air with coil) use air purifyer in system
If you have underground problems you will have to invest in large drainage systems with drywells to pump the ongoing water into
Good luck to you and all. Tom McCrave McCrave Construction Corp Smithtown NY McCraveconsr@optonline.net
Posts: 2 | Location: Smithtown, New York | Registered: 06 December 2006
licensedwaterproofer will you please help i have water coming in i dont know if it is coming from the bsement floor or the joint at the bottom of the wall i have heavy clay soil the grade runs toward my home i dug in front of my back patio and put a small brick path down very deep also i had a deck installed this is when the water started please help what should i do? if you have an email or a number i will compensate you for your assistance or if you can point me in the right diretion to solve this
quote:
Originally posted by LicensedWaterproofer: umm, when the problem/water entering is on the outside, uh, yes....knock knock, it has to be done on outside to stop/prevent it from entering.
most HO`s problems are on the outside, approx 90%.... period end of story.
amazing! so many expert Waterproofing contractors
Posts: 2 | Location: phillymale4568@yahoo.com | Registered: 30 January 2007
painfull is right Richard
