Lady bought this house 6 months ago,had home inspection....here in MI there is NO licensing of HI`s. Ummm, you tell me if Mr inspector missed anything.Seller did NOT disclose a thing
Poured walls,2 different leaky problem areas with basement walls.
Pic 2. How about that fine tar someone put along drive and house. Did it fix anything?
3-4 Underground root.Do inside systems REMOVE exterior roots that can/could cause cracks,cause parging to crack and then subsequent leaks,efflorescence,mold? Umm,no.
5-7 vertical crack,yes this is where water first-enters
8 INSIDE the basement,pic of the crack that was patched and then painted over to HIDE/CONCEAL from potential buyer
9 bottom of crack,see water stain on floor and CHECK OUT that wonderful concrete COVE
10 the end of the cove,it runs behind the washer and pfftttt, is suppsoed to direct incoming-water towards a floor drain that is about 2-3' from end of this cove. Inspector didn`t see any of this chtt? lolol Not the crack that was painted over,not the cove,not the tar along drive/house?
11 SECOND problem area,on back wall UNDER DECK
12 INSIDE the basement,pic of back wall where the water first comes through wall,was also patched and painted over
13 back outside,started digging under deck,CHECK out that vent,it goes......... underground!
14-18 dig out a bit more,see that concrete under vent,looks like an old mini footing but... it`s not.....READY to see what`s INSIDE that concrete? LOLOL
19 PVC pipe, see lots of WATER coming out of pipe? Plus,there was another smaller pipe inside this 4" pipe and they ran it into the wall....UN--BE--lievable. The pipe set up,the vent etc.
20 busted dumb pvc out
22,23 a couple of MANY open mortar joints all around the house. HI must have been asleep or just stupid to not see any of these problems and, WHO PAYS to have em all fixed correctly?
Pic 1 NEVER shake a waterproofing contractors hand,you do not know where it has been
Pics 3-6 Somebody dug out 1-2' deep x 6'long x about 2-3' wide and ummm poured concrete against wall,was between 6"-10" thick.Apparently thought it would somehow,magically keep all undergroung water away from crack,nope. This hardly repairs/waterproofs a crack but keep trying.
7-9 the vertical crack where concrete...was.
12-13 exterior drain tile A OK again lol. 'IF' the exterior tile was broken, clogged it still would not have anything to do with why there is a crack in the wall and why water enters through the crack.Believe what ya like.
19 pretty much done. Where is all the SUPPOSED ruined LANDSCAPING most inside system companies yap about?
Warwarsing NY,flooding/seepage in basements,ecoli etc. Delaware Aqueduct cracks,leaks as much as 35 million gallons DAILY.
Piers of bridges cracked,deteriorated....I-95 by downtown Philadelphia,holes in beams...just about collapsed.Interstate system weakening.
About 2/3 of busiest roads are 40+ years old. I-64 in St Louis worn out,water gets in cracks in concrete CAUSING wider cracks and holes.
Wolf Creek Dam KY....built on porous limestone in 1940`s,possible failure within 5 years.
Idaho Teton Dam....crack occurred,nig problems 85,000 dams in U.S. on average are 51 years old. Iowa has 3,300+ dams and 1 full time inspector
California, levee`s and earthquakes,vulnerable. Many levee foundations poorly built,on sand. Could cut off 1/2 of states water supply. CA has no plans to repair and no money.
Power Grid....teetering on the brink. 2003 blackout,grid is aging and overwhelmed. Deerfield Illinois, since 2000 has had 1,400 blackouts.
Aging SEWER systems.....cracks,riddled with leaks CAUSING backups in homes. St Louis, combined sewer system maxes-out when it rains,sometimes with only 1/10 of an inch of rain, highly polluted.
Yep, some homeowners problems/seepage in basement is because of exactly that,problems/cracks-leaks in CITY pipes and installing any inside system costing $7,000-$17,000+ does NOT repair/solve CITY`S problem.The SOURCE of the water is,can be....OUT there! Thats how it can get under many basement floors,on basement floors.
Inside drain tile system, they`ll j-hammer about 12"-18" along inside perimeter and guarantee THIS 12-18" perimter of floor ONLY.They don`t cover/guarantee the walls either, thats why they love to HIDE/COVER part or all of the basement wall(s).
Well, what about those homeowners who have crack(s) in basement floor,away from wall perimeter,near middle of bsmt floor or, some have thinly-poured bsmt floors,the inside perimeter system isn`t going to keep all water/sewage that comes from city pipes from entering UP through those cracks or thin areas in concrete floor.Its OK to have running-flowing water-sewage UNDER basement floors?
This homeowner spent $20,000 on an inside system and new floor,STILL leaks. Still has same problesm because the REAL problems were not competently and honestly IDENTIFIED. http://www.wqad.com/news/wqad-...2409,0,6661976.story
Water leaking out/coming from city pipes can still move,travel,percolate towards a house and get through or under the footing...when this is homeowners problem they certainly don`t need to be spending x-thousands on an inside system and sump,gotta get the CITY to correct their problem (yeah,often takes forver)...thats where the source can OFTEN be.Inside system goofs call it hydrostatic pressure under the floor and, in a way it is BUT again, the water can be coming from a CITY problem/leay pipe(s)...kind of like the lady in Iowa/story above,spending $20,000 for an inside system and new bsmt floor didn`t do sqaut.
FIND/locate where-how the water is coming from...getting in. Ya don`t go over to all peoples homes and tell them they all have a hydrostatic pressure problem under the floor and they need an inside system,bl***. Thats incompetence,negligence and often fraud. It most certainly is.
Here, how is THIS going to stop a water from coming through very possible exterior cracks and open joints in block crawl walls which by the way were never waterproofed or backfilled correctly. http://picasaweb.google.com/ti...#5297672465919757314
All the sheeting does is HIDE signs of water/moisture entering,hides mold/eflorescence.
Same goes for possible CITY problem,water getting on crawl dirt floor....will laying plastic on dirt floor and puttting a sump in stop water thats coming from a leaky city pipe? ***t,come on.It doesn`t fix/solve a possible city problem but its always most inside system/encapsulation co`s answer/supposed solution. http://picasaweb.google.com/ti...#5297656073743661650
Please show us all how putting plastic on crawl floor and on inside crawl walls stops-prevents water/insects from entering these kind of exterior openings in crawl walls
They claim they give a 25 year warranty protection plan against mold and leaks,lol. Hey, how is a homeowner going to tell/see possible mold and water on walls or floor when YOU COVERED everything up! Ya think homeowners are gonna crawl in there and pull off the sheeting and look? Wouldn`t matter if they did anyways because companies who install this would blow off any mold,water,moisture behind the sheeting/plastic and tell HO it has nothing to do with what they did
Milwaukee,Heavy rains OVERWHELM PIPES,flood basements....... http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/48646722.html ...."Caused backups in hundreds of basements...aging sanitary and storm sewer unable to handle the deluge....MASSIVE amounts of WATER seeped through cracks in the sewer LATERALS and main pipes, THEN flowed back into homes,often combining with sewer water...Any blockage in the laterals from homes to main pipes COMPOUNDED the problem"
Even if mister-builder did 'close' off the blocks/cores,the joints between-the-blocks and the blocks themselves would still allow water to enter/pass through because they don`t waterproof the exterior blocks/joints/walls.
Some love to install 'bright wall sheeting' against interior basement walls,yup.They don`t stop water from entering the blocks through exterior cracks etc in the wall thus they won`t stop-prevent further mold/efflorescence etc on the inside wall....behind the sheeting.
Just because the bottom course of blocks haven`t deteriorated/weakened...doesn`t mean they won`t. Something like this,the seller tried to patch and then paint over dteriorated blocks...a cracked/weakened wall due to exterior clay and roots against wall http://www2.snapfish.com/slide...=122238283_111847456
So, just leave exterior weight/clay soil/roots against wall? Leave exterior cracks open? Let water to continue to enter/pass through cracks,further weakening of the joints between the blocks? Let the wall deteriorate further and just put an inside system in w/sump and a few carbon fiver straps and then attach some sheeting/membrane against inside wall,cover the wall?
Every time I think I've seen it all, the MAN posts another set of pictures and I see something I've never seen before. This time, the underground dryer vent takes the cake!! That's a NEW one on me.
Architect (NY) and Home Designer (PA)
Posts: 2863 | Location: Tobyhanna, PA | Registered: 24 October 2005
That one was kinda interesting lol. Lady recently bought that house,was told by seller and HI there were no problems,no leaks.
All the while there was the vertical crack that was patched and painted over along with the hydraulic cement cove along the floor-wall joint and of course that vent,inside was patched and painted over there too. http://www2.snapfish.com/slide...=122238283_111847456
'Some' homeowners get water on slab/floor of back porch/addition because.....there can be cracks/crevices/open joints BELOW ground level on the outside.Adding soil,sloping it away or longer downspout extensions doesn`t seal/repair these openings where water can enter http://www2.snapfish.com/slide...=122238283_111847456
Some assume pouring concrete underground, alongside the basement wall will solve their leaky basement.Here,they dug down a bit and poured concrete against the wall hoping/guessing it would stop water/divert water away from where water was getting in basement,at floor-wall joint. Problem area was mainly where ya see basement window http://www2.snapfish.com/slide...=122238283_111847456 Have already busted some of the concrete up,was about 5-6'long,right against the wall and about 3' wide and 8" or so thick....then they raised the grade...still leaked http://www2.snapfish.com/slide...=122238283_111847456
Here is the crack extending down towards footing,under the concrete that was poured...its still open,regradless of what anyone does above it.You want to raise the grade or pour concrete or extend downspouts out to Neverland Ranch....fine but it doesn`t fix/repair/waterproof THE problem. http://www2.snapfish.com/slide...=122238283_111847456
Armageddon Pt 4, 3:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osdZ3wnZl5E 'Ever see Pulp Fiction?' 'Ooh say can you see' 'Oh gee lady i just came here to drill' 'Wanna compare brainpans?' 'Who`s Jethro Tull" 'Can i like get a hug from you' 'Cyclops lady is starting to bug me' 'This one looks like you,with...' 'The Cubs win the World Series!'
Blocks walls,house is about 1/2 block from Lake St Clair,a canal runs directly behind these homes,the water in basement has nothing to do with any supposed-hydrostatic pressure problem under the dumb bsmt floor.
Was some previous work done to front porch.
2 different areas in basement got water on the floor along wall-floor joint...at left front corner/left side of porch and right side of porch
Pic`s 2,3,6,7 vertical crack,apparently when xyz construction company did some work on the porch they applied tar on this crack,no hydraulic cement,no visqueen and backfilled w/same clay-***t soil.
Pics 4,5 apparently they poured concrete against porch footing...on BOTH sides of porch.
Thing is,some of that concrete-weight is against basement wall....it could cause problems to basement wall at-near corner in future if it moves/settles/shifts just a tad.Just because one pours a ***load of concrete to try and help brace a wall or footing doesn`t mean it`ll never move,doesn`t mean its secure.Underground voids in the soil can occur which could cause this chunk of concrete to move,settle-drop.Sometimes this happens and sometimes it doesn`t....why pour it against bottom of basement wall
9,10 exterior drain tile,umm A OK as is most often the case.No, not always. But whether the exterior tiles are broken-clogged or not has NOTHING to do with why there is a crack and why water enters the crack
Front wall/other side of porch leaked due to hairline cracks in parging. Didn`t leak much, only 2-3 times a year. One reason is because there were quite a few underground roots that soaked up x amount of water and because the cracks were thin.
I hope other people besides me are reading these posts and looking at the pictures. They are a real education in the realities, not the mythology, of basement waterproofing.
Architect (NY) and Home Designer (PA)
Posts: 2863 | Location: Tobyhanna, PA | Registered: 24 October 2005
I agree Richard, 100% I can't say I've pulled up every picture LWPr has taken/researched/documented, but he performs an immensely valuable service to anybody smart enough to pay attention and appreciate hard-earned but freely-given advice, as do you.
BTW, LWPr, one of the links I hadn't noticed before was the Armaggedon clip. Have you tried HULU? They don't have Armageddon yet, but they do have this classic: http://www.hulu.com/watch/79442/goin-south
Posts: 261 | Location: VA, AL, GA | Registered: 23 October 2007
...see you Sunday Tim and ummmm,if you get a chance maybe let others know about your experience w/Never-Dry.
You mentioned the porch. Sometimes the porch/footing can be part-all of the problem.Can be the 'cause' of why cracks have occurred in the basement wall and subsequent leakage/seepage. here is a small front porch.Some bricks `n joints are falling out/deteriorated..... http://www2.snapfish.com/slide...=122238283_111847456 There WAS a tree about 3-4' away from porch (stump bottom right) ...and some other trees in vicinity.Underground roots can cause cracks/leaks/problems,just like clay backfill.
This is directly above last picture.At least part of the problem here,on the driveside are openings/open mortar joints etc above ground,in the chimney, and there is likely one or more cracks on the outside of the block wall.So,why didn`t mister Inside system salesman/owner correctly identify this? Some of us know exactly why. http://www2.snapfish.com/slide...=122238283_111847456
Different house that HAD a longer BACK porch,cap etc already taken out.Underground footings...block and poured.The bottom 4' or so-of-the-poured footing was against bsmt wall,clay backfill. http://www2.snapfish.com/slide...=122238283_111847456
http://www2.snapfish.com/slide...=122238283_111847456 Block footings can be busted out,sledge hammer etc....poured can be taken out too but not w/sledge,will need j-hammer or sometimes,if its a deep-thick poured footing,may require a backhoe etc to lift the sob out,to get it off the basement wall.
Cracks in basement walls can/could.....widen. New house or one built 50++ years ago.
...construction employee was pushing FILL dirt w/bulldozer which in turn pressed against the exterior walls causing damage to two of the concrete block walls.
then they tried straightening the bowed walls and repaired the cracks in walls.
'Repaired cracks' could mean several things,NOT all good either. Maybe THEY thought it was OK to patch cracks on inside...or maybe they parged these cracks or maybe they damproofed them and then,maybe they backfilled w/SAME crap excavated soil.
'Repaired'....in the minds of some, doesn`t mean it was done right.
And ummm, STRAIGHTENING a bowed basement wall does NOT mean the wall is now A-OK,nonsense.
The wall isn`t flexible for pete sake...there are JOINTS between the blocks.If you push/straighten a block wall,some of the joints between the blocks have already loosened,mortar has cracked/crumbled...fallen out.Just because it may APPEAR ok after its been straightened doesn`t mean the wall has regained its structural integrity....nonsense.
And placing beams or carbon straps etc on inside,against wall doesn`t give the basement wall back its strength/integrity,doesn`t repair the already weakened-deteriorated joints.
To add, what about those inside system companies who place SHEETING against part or all of the inside wall? They do this on walls that have already bowed in or will-could bow in because they NEVER remove-relieve any possible exterior causes/weight.They do this with walls that have cracks.Don`t think a crack won`t WIDEN?
Just because somebody/some company says they 'repaired' a wall,a crack,does not necessarily mean it was done competently.Anyone who offers a supposed lifetime guarantee in THIS business is full O crap....period.
These kinds of answers to q`s from homeowners who got water in basement can/will only hurt the homeowner or quite possibly other HO`s who read it.The 2nd question/answer.... http://www.hometownlife.com/ar...710/NEWS02/907100301
The Q.. downspout extension came off and block basement wall is stained and a 7' area along floor-wall joint is wet. What ta do?
HI`s A.. the leak was caused by your drain tiles.... !!!
The basement wall has stains and floor-wall joint wet along 7' area!!! Soooo either, this water got in/entered because the bricks/joints/siding etc ABOVE ground got soaked (more than usual) IF-IF-IF the vertical extension came off....
...and-or the water got in because there is an exterior crack/loose-cracked parging etc on the outside of the block wall within this 7' area.
-Back driveway corner is problem/leak area -Already played around and extended downspout/gutter 1/2 mile away from corner and caulked along house and driveway...this didn`t correctly IDENTIFY the problem NOR did it fix anything! See the DRAIN TILES?
Another house,STAINS inside.... http://www2.snapfish.com/slide...=122238283_111847456 Stains has NOTHING to do with drain tiles! The stains are there because water/moisture is entering exterior cracks in block wall,period! Play the SLIDESHOW Mr Lon will ya please.
And, if water coming off the roof is allowed to soak the crap outta yer bricks etc on the outside then one can get STAINS `n water inside as well! Has NOTHING to do w/drain tiles!!!
Another HO, STAINS/efflorescence etc on the inside and water came in along floor-wall joint,had nothing to do w/drain tiles Play SLIDESHOW and see/learn something instead of always yapping about drain tiles,its pathetic http://www2.snapfish.com/slide...=122238283_111847456
Openings ABOVE ground,wall is STAINED,water along floor-wall joint...has nothing to do with drain tiles sir (can get same,very similar result if vertical downspsout came off and roof-water soaked the ***t outta yer bricks etc) http://www2.snapfish.com/slide...=122238283_111847456
House is broke,but who`ll fix it? http://www.startribune.com/local/48687182.html Sewer project...crane fell over.Two months later a crane toppled over again.Then in summer,excavation work shook the house,crevice opened in driveway etc.
Water entering the foundation through cracks,holes or breaks can freeze and expand,causing damage to the foundation.All conditions that permit entry of rodents or other pests must be corrected http://www.unomaha.edu/neighbo...ement/foundation.php
Lets get this right,they`re telling you that they`ll drill these holes,pour the crap into the holes and it EXPANDS 3' and will then 'completely seal the basement walls'? LOL!
Quite a few have been talked/bs`d into these inside systems and have DAY CARE in their basements.Hmm, don`t stop water so may very well be mold behind dumb sheeting these goofs install against wall and what about the possibility of radon gas in basement...huh? Come on. If ya drill holes in the blocks and leave them open (and don`t waterproof/fix cracks that are on the outside),those kids could be breathing crap you never expected.
Now,if a homeowner wants to fart around and try any of these things,fine..go ahead,its their house.I`d still recommend to any potential buyer to NOT buy the house or,get estimates to correctly waterproof what was and still is needed and take that cost off the asking price.On the other hand,any contractor selling/installing this kind of garbage and claims to be an expert is an incompetent fool and is not correctly & honestly diagnosing the actual problems nor are they correctly repairing them.
2nd time B dork had to come back http://www.flickr.com/tinathor...t-72157621058363981/ Notice the damp/discolored bsmt wall just above where water is on floor and right above the stupid sheeting on bottom of wall
That inside water-diverting system is not going to stop water from entering here,or in other areas where there are openings above ground and cracks on outside wall below grade You can paint all ya like,if water is allowed to continue to enter these stains will come right back http://www.flickr.com/tinathor...t-72157621058363981/
I live here in Michigan and need waterproofing done, Do you work in Royal Oak area.
taiken@comcast.net
..maybe Tim will post and give other homeowners some insight into what Never Dry wanted to do.And apparently a city inspector told them to just add soil,totally incompetent.
What Tim/family has are cracks on the outside of block walls.There is some mold,paint peeling etc on the inside walls in these 3 areas.Also has several bsmt windows where water has/is entering and so they`ll need to be replaced.
The 3 areas w/exterior cracks are, 2 corners and pretty much along 1 side wall...about 48 linear ft.
Never dorks wanted $16,000 and then lowered estimate to $14,000....such nice salespeople eh.
My est to fix/waterproof the problems,at-this-point-in-time was $4,350. 'IF' they wanted to waterproof all the around/all walls then it would cost between $8,500-9,200. Far cry from $14,000 eh.
They do not leak/seep anywhere else other than those 3 areas (except through some bsmt windows) and are not doing any remodeling etc in the basement and,the walls are structurally sound/not bowed etc.Say again,gave them the option of correctly waterproofing and backfillling all-walls but since they`ve never had any problems in other areas then why spend more dang money.'If' another area leaks in future then waterproof it,no problem.
The cracks in walls,the problems,are OBVIOUS which would lead any honest & competent contractor to the ONLY solution for STOPPING the water from where it first enters,exterior waterprofing.There are also about 5-6 trees on property so there will likely be some underground-roots along and possibly against the exterior walls,especially in these 3 areas.
To install an inside system w/sump pump or raise the grade like city inspector said would not repair these exterior cracks and would not remove any expanding-contracting soil or underground roots...duh!! Water would still enter,cracks would still be open,mold etc will get worse.And so,recommending either is negligent,incompetent.
Homeowner apparently had 'some pre-existing cracks'...so AIG denied claim.
Then a forensic engineering report commissioned by HO insurer determined that even though many of the cracks were present in the house,"the construction on and along Smithtown road not only caused the existing cracks to open up more but caused additional damage"
About 1:00 minute in,see some efflorescence etc on basement wall....down low along bottom courses and some higher up, 2-3 courses.
Then around 1:45 they say 'even with no significant rain for days the basement walls were damp'.
Well,could be a 2 part problem with this basement and possibly others in Warwarsing.One being the Aqueduct tunnel and the other could certainly be cracks/loose-cracked parging or no parging at all on the outside of the basement wall(s).
Just like what a poster here found,'Jenkins' in OH. He said as soon as he dug out the clay his walls DRIED UP, uh huh.The exterior basement walls were partially-parged and the thin damproofing that was applied when house was built had worn-off/came off onto soil because builder didn`t use visqueen to help protect the thin damproof coating(house is handful of years old) Here are a few pic`s of what INSIDE wall looked like. http://www2.snapfish.com/slide...=122238283_111847456
Raising the GRADE,sloping it away,mudjacking slabs,long downspouts,shallow french drains etc does NOT NOT NOT fix/repair/waterproof exterior cracks,loose-cracked parging,does not waterproof a wall that was never parged or was only damproofed.
And raising the grade etc does NOT fix/repair the OTHER possibilities of where water is first entering such as,open mortar joints,openings in-around-under basement windows.It doesn`t snake a possible blockage in the lateral line etc.
You have to protect the thin damproofing,need to apply visqueen etc. Here is what happens when a builder doesn`t and a crack occurs,poured wall http://www2.snapfish.com/slide...=122238283_111847456 If ya play slideshow you`ll see they only applied very thin damproofing (most came off on soil,no visqueen)and they backfilled with all clay. They also tried diverting water away,see pipe?
Explain please, how any inside system and sump pump would REMOVE the cause of cracks in basement wall,like this.If your a structural engineer,city inspector etc....please explain http://www2.snapfish.com/slide...=122238283_111847456
If you install an inside system,HOW is that repairing/waterproofing the exterior cracks you see? What....just leave cracks like these open? Leave the ROOT against the wall?
Have completely had it with those who think/say, all a homeowner needs to do is raise and slope the grade or install 3 mile long downspouts or install an inside system or put in a sump pump,all the while NOT defining/diagnosing the dang problem....how the water is actually entering! This is incompetence and with inside system companies its often fraud.
Its OK to NOT waterproof exterior cracks and rather install an inside system and allow FURTHER mold etc to grow on basement wall huh. http://www2.snapfish.com/slide...=122238283_111847456 Just cover part or all of the inside walls where there is mold/efflorescence with idiotic sheeting eh? If i was a HO and got bs`d into this CRAP i`d sue the inside system company in a heartbeat.Installing an inside system when the problem(s) are OUTSIDE is incompetence and as some of us KNOW,fraud.
If you had an inside system installed and NOW don`t see any water on-the-floor doesn`t NOT at all mean they correctly and honestly fixed your actual problems. Got that?
And one more thing,the HOSTS for those home improvement radio shows who recommend to their listeners inside system companies....they have a problem as well.First, these hosts CHARGE those companies to be on the shows and constantly recommend them to you.It is NOT free as the hosts say it is,nonsense! I`m tired of that bogus crap as well.They also tell the listeners they ONLY recommend the very BEST waterproofing contractors! This too is more nonsense. What they do is,recommend those companies who PAY them quite a bit of money and they think-assume are the BEST.
And how exactly Mr Hosts would YOU know much if anything on this subject,how many jobs have you hosts ever done AND had to guarantee over a long period of time. Whats that...none? Quit bsg your listeners on this subject as you are only recommending those who PAY you and i`m telling ya`s with 100% accuracy,they are not the best.Have repeatedly listened to at least 6 of these hosts and over a long period of time.2 are in OH,3 in MI and one based out of MI who unfortunately gets to yap nationwide.On THIS subject,you guys are full of crap!
One host here in MI recommends a Hm Imp company who started their buisness in 2003 and just within the last 36 months already has a minimum of 36 better business bureau complaints.
Come on,36 complaints already....this company is one of the 'BEST'? Or rather,they are one of the few willing to PAY you.Same goes for an inside system INJECTION co he 'highly recommends'...PFFT! This company has at least 23 complaints in 36 months
Emailed him about this,sent him copy of companies BBB report and so what does he do? He gets on the air,next show and says NOT to worry about about BBB complaints.Yep, they really care about their listeners eh? LOL
