Hello All:

We recently discovered we have a very bad mold problem in our basement that will require a complete gut job of the basement (which is our family room in a split level home) located in South Jersey. We have had 3 estimates and as mentioned in these post's the waterproofing companies we got the estimates from all had prices anywhere from $7,000 to $14,000 to waterproof and clean up the mold which is behind the wall. Each is supposed certified companies, which gty's of no water or they will fix it again, but who do you trust. All 3 gave different approaches to remedy the problem. I have not a clue who might be remotely correct in their approach. What should I do? This is going to cost me a fortune that my family can't afford right now. Nor can we afford to ignore the problem with 2 small children in our home.

Any good suggestions or recommendation's of who to call (if any of you have used a repretable company for this problem) please em me.

Thanks

john wallace from SU basketball fame?

anyways, find out what licensedWaterproofer has to say and take it as from the Bible. first identify the problem, second - fix it from the outside - then i guess clean up the mold...

Hey Thanks 88bimmer. I've read the post's between the two of you guys and sound's like he has a alot of insight (not ignoring the fact that you could be reading, my friend). I'll give him a shout out. They basically identified the area of the problem, recommend's fixing from the outside in of course, but the damage insdie the wall's is extensive. We will see. Did you fix your problem okay? My wife is originally from upstate NY (Buffalo). I know your guy's get a ton of snow up there a water issue must be a nightmare to correct up there before the snow hit's.

BJW

See? Three different approaches suggested, and I'll bet not a single one of them did any testing to identify the source of the problem. If you have mold, you have moisture, because mold cannot exist without it.

Possible causes of moisture are:
1. Damaged, insufficient, or missing vapor retarder under the floor slab. Cure: remove the floor (not as bad as it sounds), place a properly installed vapor retarder, and pour a new floor slab.
2. Cracked or otherwise leaking foundation wall or walls. Cure: hose test to find the areas that are leaking, then excavate to the footing, apply thick coat of dampproofing, and embed a waterproof membrane in the dampproofing, then backfill with pea gravel.
3. High water table, meaning higher that the basement floor all year round. Cure: install foundation drains piped to daylight, or to a drywell located far from the house, and while you've got the excavation open, waterproof the walls as above.
4. If you have a storm trap, it may be clogged, causing water to back up. Cure: have a good plumber snake the storm trap.

If you have only moisture but not water, the problem is probably either a faulty vapor retarder under the floor, or insufficient dampproofing on the foundation walls.

If you have water in the basement, then the foundation walls are suspect, either insufficient dampproofing, cracks, holes. etc. Cracks outside the wall can admit water and still not be visible inside the walls. Also possible are unsealed openings above ground in the foundation walls, such as uncaulked basement windows.

But the all the people you talked to surely told you all this, right? Riiight. Or did they immediately suggest their solution, without doing any investigation at all. If so, then RUN the other way. Please.

How old is the home? Its a split level, which tells me that a lot of the mold is around and under the front entrance stairs? Am I right about that?

Having been doing mold removal and testing for quite a while there are some facts you need to know.

1. Regardless of the type of mold that is present. It does not belong there and it identifies an area of increased moisture that needs to be addressed.
2. Most (not all) contractors who claim to do mold work really have only been trained by a lab or some sort of company that sells them products to sell to the consumers. This training consisted of a one-day seminar at a local hotel, fill out a form, get a fancy diploma and some sort of fancy letters to put at the end of their name. In fact there are some web sites in which you can in one evening become a professional mold remediator.
3. Most web sites that offer solutions to mold removal and clean up are selling you a product that you do not need. Look between the lines. If they’re offering some sort of cleaning product or special UV light or gadget. Research that item and most likely you will find a link from the company on how to sell their product to those who have mold and to become certified in that business.
4. Most facts that you read about mold on these web sites are made up. There is no editorial control with them and because of this fact, and that the same incorrect facts have been spread around on everyone else’s web site through plagiarism people begin to think they are true.
5. Most (not all) water-proofing companies do not have the expertise in mold removal. They just use this as a form of scare tactic to sell you their service.
6. Most (not all) of the water proofing companies over sell the price on this mold fact. If you wait for a while they will call you back with “I have a recent cancellation in your area and if you act right now in order to keep my guys busy I will take off X amount of dollars”.
7. Mold cleanup by professionals can be expensive if done correctly. This depends however on how much and where the mold is.
8. Mold needs something to grow on. It digests the material as its food source. If you remove the food source you limit the amount of mold that will develop.
9. I have found though my experience. In most cases. The more naturally toxic molds or those that have been in the news a lot, such as Stachybotrys, grow on surfaces that have a paper content to them. Sheetrock, newspapers, books, bottom of cardboard boxes etc. This is not to say you cannot find these naturally toxic molds on other surfaces but the probability is much lower.
10. Mold almost always starts near the floor in a basement. Moisture is heavy and raises the humidity of the materials near the floor level, which in turn causes the mold to develop. If the mold is growing more near the ceilings you may have a leak coming in from somewhere else.
11. Your insurance company most likely will not cover the mold issue in the house.

My suggestion is to get the air tested and get the damaged moldy material out of the house. Keep the kids and any family pets out of the area. Aging adults or those with compromised health issues as well should avoid the suspected areas. When the cleaning is done get the air tested again to assure that the mold has been removed and not spread around the house during the cleaning process. Once the damaged areas are removed you then can get a better idea of what is causing the increased moisture in the basement which has caused the mold to grow in the first place as the walls will be removed.

Before you start ripping out walls etc.and spending huge amounts of money, I urge you to try,on a trial basis, a Shaklee AIR SOURCE. The results are tremendous, safe for your home and your health.It takes two advanced technologies, photohydroionization and electron generation, and will reduce mold and yeast within a few days.It worked for me, I wouln't be without it. Please E-mail me,for more stats. and info.

My E-mail is, pinkynathans@sbcglobal.net. For those with mold issues.

Great information by a lot of people. If there is a source to the problem you definitely want to get that fixed. Unfortunetly these jobs can get expensive, so do your research carefully. In the mean time you and your family can be protected by the same technology that was developed fot the shuttles. We have independent studies that will show you the effectiveness of the equipment.Cost of the equipment is fractional compared to the estimates you have gotten.
Do yourself a favor and research this for your benefit.
A lot of homes and apartments were saved from costly mold remediation after Hurricane Katrina.
You can contact me @odellhandyhands@msn.com

Well, it's all over for you expensive mold remediation people now. Shaklee has gotten into the mold remediation business!!

Notice these people say "email me for information". They don't DARE put the information here in black and white so the real experts in the field can have at it. I wonder why not?

Richard Hetzel's Jan. 17th reply was excellent, but I think he forgot one of the most important steps in ensuring water and moisture do not reappear. In step 2, when you've dug down to the outside footings, install French drains (or weeping tiles as they are known in some places) around the perimeter of the house at the footings. You will have to ensure then that the water collected in the drains (really just a large PVC tubing with holes) has an escape.

Hello, We had the same issues last year, we purchased our current home and after the closing we went back to the house to find an inch of water in the basement, needless yto say, our inspector missed the problem and the former owner hid it, so litigation is under way. We contacted at least 6 waterproofers for quotes and after doing alot of research on our own, we narrowed it down to NATION DRY Waterproofing. They completely gutted our full basement, installed french drains and a sump pump and a backup sump pump with charger. The waterproofing work took 3 days and they cleaned up all of the debris. They also subcontracted out the rebuilding of the basement walls to an associated company, CRAFTSMEN ON CALL. They put all of the walls back up, (all new material) and reinstalled the stairs, plus we hired them to do a few extra things in the house. The biggest problem we had with NATION DRY, was the discharge from the sump pumps. At first they had the pump discharging into a pot that they installed next to my house, the pot wuickly overflowed and ran down the lawn and over the sidewalk into the street. Our Township plumbing inspector refused to approve the work until the water dischage issue was corrected, we ended up having Nation Dry run an additional line from the pot to the curb and discharging the overflow into the street. The Township still wouldn't approve the discharge, so we had to apply to the Township for a variance to allow the discharge into the street, it took 6 months, but we finally have an approved system and our basement is back in order. Whatever contractor you choose, please make sure that they know your townships ordinances on the water disposal. The total cost for the waterproofing, recontruction and running an extra line to the street and the emergency backup pump was about $12,000. Good luck with your waterproofing. Bob

Not to put down the Shaklee Air Source unit because they have several very good health items and personal products, but it does not entirly remove the mold spores Yes it may reduce the amount in the air, So does a good quality air filter for a lot less cost. I have tested the unit for another Shaklee sales person and it simply did not work the way they said it would. I even bought one, for my office, and I did not notice any special change other then an ozone odor in the air. Yes it did help slightly but does not do what the Manufacture claimed it did. Also they do not tell you that you have to replace the bulb unit every other year which is expensive until you purchase it. Besides, lowering the mold levels in the air after it grows is not going to stop the problem anyway. The only way to get rid of it is remove the food source that has it growing and then address the water issue. I also think I should have included another fact. There is NO magic cure for mold other then removing the moisture and then the damaged material. That is basic mold removal 101.

quote:

Richard Hetzel's Jan. 17th reply was excellent, but I think he forgot one of the most important steps in ensuring water and moisture do not reappear. In step 2, when you've dug down to the outside footings, install French drains (or weeping tiles as they are known in some places) around the perimeter of the house at the footings. You will have to ensure then that the water collected in the drains (really just a large PVC tubing with holes) has an escape.

French drains have their place, but they are not a one-size-fits-all solution any more than any other solution might be. If the problem is caused by a single crack in one spot, repairing the crack is almost always sufficient, and the expense and destruction of a full french drain system is unnecessary.

Problem number one with french drains is usually "where do they drain to?", as you can read in a previous post. Often there is nowhere for them to go, except for a drywell. The problem with this is that french drains are really only necessary when there is a high water table (higher than the basement floor), and if that is the case, the water table is likely to be the same where the drywell is located, and trying to place more water where there is already water doesn't work. If the french drains cannot flow to a daylight outlet, they will probably do no more than become silt collectors, and we have read of that in another post in this forum also.

There is no magic single solution. The vital steps still remain; FIRST, identify (not guess) the cause. THEN, select the solution.

old bridge,

so do we have this right? you had an INSIDE System done for $12,000 AND, 'Craftsmen on call' do carpentry/plumbing/heating work, right?

Hi,
I currently have a B-Dry system in my house that is wonderful. It is also gty'd for the life of the house even if you sell it. You can look it up on the web. I used a wall treatment called Dry-Loc on th inside of the basement walls. That has worked great also. During the spring I run a de-humidifier when there is a lot of moisture around. If you can do the gutting yourself that might save you quite a bit of money. You should get a pro to clean it after the gutting unless you study up on doing it yourself. Also if you have forced hot air heating or Central Air I would get the vents cleaned. If you are really tight on money a temporary solution is to mix 1 water, 1 part laundry detergent, and 1/2 part bleach and spray it diectly on the mold. This will kill the existing mold but it does not prevent it from coming back. Make sure to ventilate the area so the fumes don't get to you. Also it can damage what you spray it on. I hope this helps you.

From Some Who's Been Through It
Interior Designer

CRhyne,

"IF"..... your original problem/leak(s) was due to cracks `n other openings on the outside then, water is still entering your basement. You don`t SEE water on the floor because they put in an inside drain tile system. Does not mean they 'waterproofed' your basement or your basement walls, hardly.

On the other hand, "IF" your original problem was a blockage under the floor and/or high water table that house exists on then, you don`t see water on the floor and the problem MIGHT-have/could have possibly been solved by snaking storm trap-cleanout and/or installing a sump pump(s) to....control the water-level under the floor....yep.

And Drylok does not stop/prevent water/moisture from entering cracks & other openings on the outside either, sry.

one has to stop/eliminate/prevent future water-moisture to stop/prevent FUTURE mold. dehumidifiers do not stop/eliminate/prevent water from entering thus,by simple running `em will not stop/prevent mold.

say again, your 'original' problem/leak(s) should have been defined first before spending one cent. Maybe B dry did and....maybe they didn`t. The fact you don`t see water on the floor does not mean they waterproofed your/others basement-walls. Thats the truth.

like some other HO`s,maybe all you had were some leaky rod holes, if you have poured walls. If so, then sealing/packing those rod holes was ALL that was needed....not an inside perimeter system.

same goes for other possible problems, like some HO`s only have 1 wall, or 1 crack on 1 wall etc that is allowing water to enter. If so then that is all they need done/waterproofed. Too many get talked into a full perimeter system that they, do NOT need. If thats what they want then by all means, spend yer money.

one more thing for now Any so-called 'honest-expert-this-and-that company' who actually tells HO`s and states on their websites that.. "Outside excavation is unnecessary"....and "the sealing of the Outside of basement walls was done when homes are built, it didn`t work then and won`t work now" is making FALSE CLAIMS,and misleading the public for self gain....yet again, thats the truth.

Take it a step further, Any ORGANIZATION that allows it`s paying-members to make/advertise False Claims, whether on the web,in newspapers, etc , imo, also needs a kick in the azz.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: LicensedWaterproofer,

Anybody who is learned in the business of mold is aware that the mold problem cannot be properly dealt with unless the mold is physically removed from the picture. The main concern with this procedure is to control the spread of the mold spores. All the "easy" solutions that are offered by folks that claim a certain material, which can be sprayed on mold to control it or some "equipment" may be used to solve the mold problems are usually the most costly and ineffective way that you can go. I have been a contractor for over 30 years and have been involved in the Environmental side of contracting for the past 18 years and have yet to see anything from Annebec or the others that does anything at all.

Call a reputable mold contractor and ask them what is the best way to solve your mold problem. Waterproofing folks are also not the best ones to get mold information from as they are, in most cases, not qualified to deal with mold.

And before you deal with any mold contractors you should check their credentials and make sure they have Pollution Insurance. If the contractor is not properly trained and insured, find one who is.

To CRhyne....In many cases the absolute worst thing you can do is to spray ANY water or water mixture on the mold. This will only cause the mold spores to be released more rapidly. All mold should be handled very carefully and if you don't know what to do you could end up making matters worse. In addition, spraying something to "kill" mold is accomplishing nothing. The mold is still there. Even if you remove the source of the moisture, which is the root of the problem, the mold is only dormant. It is still an allergenic substance even in it's dormant state. It will merely wait for the moisture to return and then begin growing again. In order to properly deal with a mold problem you have to first remove the source of the moisture. Then you have to physicall remove the moldy material itself being very careful to control the spread of the spores. No chemicals or equipment alone can get this done.

LicensedWaterproofer,

I understand that the B-Dry is a drain system and not a waterproofing system. In my house it drains the water into 2 sump pumps. My foundation does not contain large cracks and holes.

Although I live ontop of a hill, the ground is actually a shelf. When it rains the water builds up and then ends up flooding the houses on my block and the town below. My neighbors have put in outside drain systems and they have failed time and again because of the amount of water we get here. The B-dry system handles the water problem well and unlike my neighbors I do not get water on my basement floor.

As for preventing the mold taking out of the moisture in the air does help significantly.
Since I have used the dry-loc and dehumidifiers, I do not get mold in my basement anymore.

Also most foundations that were done over 10 -15 yrs ago were not sealed. Now most honest builders do seal the foundation, especially in areas with water problems.

I also know that "waterproofing" is done on the outside. I have actually seen it done where they excavate around the house and spray an ashpalt coating on the foundation.

By the way, when I bought the house the previous owners had orginally put in a french drain system around the house. It failed to prevent the water coming in and that is when the previous owners chose to put in the b-dry system.

These are just a few ways to handle some of the problems asscociated with water problems.

Time and time again, we see here real experts in their fields posting clear detailed explanations, in contrast to those that post links to organizations whose members have dubious credentials, or who post only email addresses so they can send YOU their secret cures. A real solution to a problem can easily withstand the light of day. It's the snake oil that has to be sold in secret. There's a reason the snake oil salesmen won't post explanations of their supposed "solutions" to problems.

It's painful to read posts by those who bought the expensive and possibly unnecessary systems. For the most part, their problems have not been solved. Yes, they no longer have water on their basement floors, but that water was not the disease, it was only a symptom, and making the symptom go away does not cure the disease. If water was enetering their basement walls before, it's still entering now. If a contractor "rebuilt" the walls, meaning put up stud walls like there were before, all that was cured was your ability to see what's going on behind the stud walls. If there was mold before, it will be back, because the disease has not been cured. Mold isn't the disease either, it's just another symptom. And by the time the symptom becomes evident again, the company you paid all that money to could be out of business, or doing business under another name, or in another city.

Read the warranties that are offered BEFORE signing a contract. Do they say that water will no longer enter the basement walls, and offer to repair if it does? Do they say that mold will never return and offer to remediate it if it does? Do they say that insects or radon gas will not enter your basement any more, and offer to return and deal with those if they do? Or do they say ONLY that you will not SEE any water on your basement floor? Out of sight, out of mind, is that it?