Hi,

I am trying to buy a 4 yr old house but during inspection, a bowing crack was found in the basement wall (Pilaster wall).

Location of the crack is three blocks from top.

It was reviewed further by structural engineer and he offered three solutions:

1> Install a steel beam - Not advisable as it can have resell issues

2> Reinforce the wall by extending the wall by cpl of inches, re-plastering it with cement. Obviously this will require seller to get permission from the township.

3> Apply carbon fiber.

Which is the best solution ? Or Should I back out at this stage and not buy the house ?

Thanks
Bhaven

Those 3 options are just patches or fixes and do not do anything the address the real cause. Just like puttinga waterproofing material on the outside or inside to fix a leak.

The wall has already failed (cracked/bowed), so it will never be as strong as it was when it was built.

Do the engineer give you any ideas on the cause?

Thanks for the reply.

Per him, it was caused by the builde hile constructing the house..

So is there another fix beside what I have been told ?

Do you think I shld back out ?

It depends on two factors, one of which will be difficult to measure if you do not own the house, as you will see.
1. What is the extent of the bowing? Is it bowed a little or a lot? How far out from the general wall surface does the "peak" of the bowed part extend?
2. Is the bowing static or dynamic, in other words, has it stopped bowing, or is it continuing to bow? This is the measurement that takes months to discover, and it is the critical measurement.

If a wall is bowed only slightly and IF the bowing is static (not increasing), then very possibly you will need to do nothing, especially if the engineer's determination of the cause is accurate.

Is the wall parallel to, or perpendiculat to, the floor joists above it? If it is parallel, is it tied into the floor structure to brace the top of the wall. This is not always easy to determine, and it is a step many builders omit, more out of ignorance of the requirement than out of bad workmanship. If the wall is not braced back into the floor structure, then maybe adding some solid bridging between joists and a conection to the sill plate on the wall will help stabilize the wall.

Is there a driveway directly adjacent to the wall outside?

Minor bowing of a wall can last the lifetime of the structure. The trick is determining if it is minor, and if it will stay minor.

I agree that you have to find out the cause of the bowing. However, out of those three options, Carbon Fiber is the best (IMO) because as a stabilizer (specifically for this description of the problem bi-directional woven mesh on a horizontal plane) it has ten times the tensile strength of steel, inexpensive to install, and it doesn't put any stress on joists or beams as I-Beams can do if the wall is actively pushing inward. Carbon Fiber applications are only good for minor bowing scenarios (less than 2").

If it is truly three blocks down and running horizontal, I think this might be something to look into. Depending on your local soils, it can be unusual to have that much force that high on the wall... you also need to check proper load distribution and footing configuration, which I am sure your structural engineer did to arrive at his determination.

quote:

Originally posted by watergeek:
I agree that you have to find out the cause of the bowing. However, out of those three options, Carbon Fiber is the best (IMO) because as a stabilizer (specifically for this description of the problem bi-directional woven mesh on a horizontal plane) it has ten times the tensile strength of steel, inexpensive to install, and it doesn't put any stress on joists or beams as I-Beams can do if the wall is actively pushing inward. Carbon Fiber applications are only good for minor bowing scenarios (less than 2").

If it is truly three blocks down and running horizontal, I think this might be something to look into. Depending on your local soils, it can be unusual to have that much force that high on the wall... you also need to check proper load distribution and footing configuration, which I am sure your structural engineer did to arrive at his determination.

can be unusual? not imo, not after seeing inside/outside of walls throughout 3 decades and apparently not that unusual in this link/Amherst
posted many links-pics, you bother to read and try `n understand what is said or assume you know most/all in 12 or so years? No,i/we don`t have every single solitary answer-solution for every single HO, have said this, said it early on in first posts...BUT,do try and provide all-FACTS based on experienced which is backed up by others-links...some need to READ em,try `n UNDERSTAND em.

http://www.lrb.usace.army.mil/AmherstSoilStudy/reports/Amherst-2005-01.pdf

2.4.3 Foundation repairs
....'erroneous DIAGNOSIS and subsequent implementation of an INAPPROPRIATE remedial measure.....misapplication of CARBON FIBER strips....'

3.2 LATERAL WALL PRESSURE
Four SOURCES likely contributed to lateral wall pressures on BASEMENT Walls...
1)pressure from soil weight
2)pressure from soil swell
3)hydrostatic pressure (exterior-lateral-hydrostatic-pressure)
4)pressure from frost
"The INWARD Bowing of a basement wall is the simplest indication of a lateral pressure problem.Bowing generally occurs when external forces exceed the wall strength and/or the strength of the wall supports...'

"Cracking can also occur when stresses INDUCED BY lateral pressure exceed the strength of the concrete or CMU wall. The most common crack pattern originates in the corners and radiates up or down at approx 45-degree angles.For CMU walls, the cracks propagate along the mortar joints in a STAIR STEP pattern.Often these cracks terminate at a long horizontal fracture that parallels the bsmt floor about 2/3 the way UP-THE-WALL. The third crack TYPE is VERTICAL....'

EXCESSIVE LATERAL pressure can affect the overall integrity of a house.

3.2.2 Soil Weight
.....the WEIGHT of the RETAINED SOIL mass INDUCES lateral pressure

Thats why its best to GET RID OF THE dumb azz clay/soil that is against the exterior of wall and replace w/gravel...after waterproofing wall.

CONC/Masonry...apparently this is part of what you don`t wanna hear or understand, thus YOUR ideas on many posts, here and on other sites to to try and DIVERT SURFACE water, This doesn`t remove lateral soil pressure and doesn`t waterproof the EXTERIOR CRACKS that occurred when block wall BOWS IN...what? Leave them open? And, leave the soil-weight against the wall?

3.2.3 Soil swell
When expansive soils are PLACED AGAINST basement walls the SWELLING of these soils can INDUCE lateral pressures...they go through yearly cycles of shrinking and swelling before DAMAGING the walls....'

Beams would be better than carbon straps, more secure but needs to be used in conjuction w/Exterior Waterproofing and backfilling w/gravel! Bowed wall is cracked,has crack(s) on EXTERIOR and most likely have loose/cracked parging. And many wanna leave cracks and shtt OPEN? And...leave the cause,the soil(or roots etc) against the exterior of wall? Are you nuts?

quote:

If it is truly three blocks down and running horizontal, I think this might be something to look into. Depending on your local soils, it can be unusual to have that much force that high on the wall... you also need to check proper load distribution and footing configuration, which I am sure your structural engineer did to arrive at his determination.

Complete and utter structural gibberish, written by an "expert" who doesn't know a **** thing about structures. What is "proper load distribution"?? What could "footing configuration" possibly have to do with a crack three blocks down on the wall?

Did this "expert" ask whether the bowed wall is parallel to, or perpendicular to, the floor joists above? Did this "expert" ask whether the top of the wall, if parallel, was correctly braced into the floor structure above? Did this "expert" ask how thick the wall is? Did this "expert" ask what is the relationship of the outdide grade to the basement floor, in other words, how much soil is being retained by the wall? Did the "expert" ask about the soil type that might lie outside the wall? Did the "expert" ask whether there is a driveway directly adjacent to the wall?

What?? The "expert" didn't ask any of those questions, yet he was ready to prescribe a remedy, which is probably the only remedy that he sells, just by amazing coincidence? Will wonders never cease?

IF the bowing is minor, and IF the cause of the bowing no longer exists, and therefore IF the bowing is not continuing, did this "expert" tell you that you may need to do nothing at all?

With answers to all the questions the "expert" overlooked and failed to ask, those of us who cannot personally see the house may possibly suggest the best course of action, but the best person to do that would be one who has examined the condition first hand. Maybe the best course of action is to excavate and rebuild the first three courses of block. Maybe the best course of action would be block piers inside the wall. Who knows? Certainly none of us who have incomplete information, and certainly not the "expert" who went ahead and prescribed a remedy based on no knowledge whatsoever. With "experts" like that, we don't need charlatans.

You're exactly right... who knows. I haven't seen the affected area and neither have you. Look, I am merely offering suggestions here just like you are. I offered my <b>opinion</b> on which of the three recommended repairs would be best. Just my opinion. Didn't claim to be the "expert," didn't prescribe a remedy without knowing the cause. I wonder how many times you have typed that on this board... I gave a little bit of information to support my opinion and all you can come up with is a news story to attack it? I bet I can find a news story for everything under the sun that has gone wrong or someone has filed a claim for. What does this prove?

Look, you lend yourself no more credibility when you attack the opinion of another poster... that's why this is a message board forum. Obviously this person sought the advice of a struct eng and that was the best thing they could have done. And by the way, improper load distribution can cause buckling in block walls. Certain footing configurations can cause shifting within the wall at various places.

The two of you are attacking me on every single post I make and I have given very minor detail on the work that I do. How do you know that I don't excavate and remove soil? Apparently that is all you guys do <b>because that is the only regurgitation on every single post about every single foundation question</b>, yet because I have responded with different solutions that are <b>relevant</b> to the original post, you guys go on a rant to try to discredit me... on a message board no less. How are you helping a consumer by making an ass of yourself and calling another poster out on little if no merit whatsoever, other than I may have an opinion different than yours, an idea different than yours?