Everdry,Basement Systems,B Dry,Basement Guys,Mid Atlantic and the rest of you who mostly/only install Inside Systems.....you may wanna read this AND try and UNDERSTAND it
some who use the term french drain on exterior means they`ll dig a little shallow trench,some will be about 1'deep,others might be around 2'.
some will use perforated drain tile,some may apply a lil asphalt to 'top'1-2' of wall,others will not.
thing is,they cannot repair/waterproof ALL cracks by doing this, cannot repair entire length or DEPTH of crack(s) by doing this stuff/french drain.Most/parts of cracks will still be OPEN, left open.
and trying to divert some-surface-water does not divert all surface water and certainly doesn`t divert all SUB-surface water away from entire depth of wall,cracks..so,water-moisture-inects etc can still enter
applying tar or other products along sidwalks against a house does NOT waterproof/repair cracks and other openings in basement walls or above basement walls, sheeshhhhhh! Some Radio talk show hosts,some home inspectors, city inspectors and those who install inside systems please stop recommending this nonsense
Drilling holes in blocks from inside basement doesn`t stop/prevent water-moisture from entering cracks,loose parging etc on the Outside,cmon.
Say it again, drilling holes will only allow water that gets-inside hollow blocks, out onto floor or into an inside system...it isn`t waterproofing,it isn`t waterproofing cracks,loose parging,gaps where servive lines enter...they are trying to DIVERT water that WILL CONTINUE to ENTER....around perimeter and usually to a sump,sometimes to a floor drain.
An expert who gives a hoot wants to diagnose where-how water is FIRST entering, some have trouble understand`g that.Many who only or most often install Inside Systems do NOT diagnose where-how water is ACTUALLY entering, they either don`t know or don`t care. Don`t care cuz they only install inside systems or they want to,prefer to, install the inside system because they make more money, it requires alot less materials and alot less labor...they-the company makes out better and their laborers/installers don`t have to work anywhere near as hard,don`t have to hand dig 6' or so deep etc etc.
new/newer homes, many have plastic perforated drail tile along footing when built.
it`s cheaper and much easier `n faster to lay when building house, doesn`t mean it`s the best by any means and, manufacturer states...
'Clayware and rigid plastic perforated pipes are generally MORE-expensive than the flexible type and they SHOULD BE USED where the DEPTH of the drainage is such that the LOAD of the BACKFILL material would CAUSE a flexible plastic pipe to collapse. As a general rule of thumb we do NOT RECOMMEND the use of flexible plastic pipe at depths GREATER than 1.2 meters' ---SELECTING Peforated Pipe http://www.oxfordplasticsinc.com/perforatedpipe.htm
-should NOT be used at depths greater than 1.2 meters. Many footings-depth of backfill- are 5 1/2',6',7'++ deep.
Yet quite a few builders and those who did inspections OK`d the use of this flex-perf-tile at depths GREATER than 1.2 meters
http://www.kodakgallery.com/ShareConfirm.jsp?collid=55563358912 Pic`s 10,11 are the clay tiles used when house was built in 1948, nothing wrong with them And then see pic`s 14 & 15 Flex plastic perf see what happens when a 200 guy steps on this tile? no, it doesn`t have side-soil-support in photos, just showing what can,and does sometime happen to THIS type of tile underground with weight of backfill atop.Clay & pvc should be used,not flex plastic perf tile.Thats brand spanking NEW plastic perf tile by the way in pics.
Ok, beyond the tile... pic 1...any tile laid undeground could get clogged. and laying any tiles 1-2' deep around house doesn`t waterproof existing cracks,doesn`t waterproof loose parging etc.
pics 2,3,4,5,6...cracks on outside of block wall where tile in pic 1 was laid, in fact there is same water-DIVERSION crap around 90% of house.Did it ever solve the actual problems? No.
pic 7...inside of SAME corner shown in pics 2-6 NO visible vertical-cracks. So again, just because a homeowner,inspector etc does NOT see a crack on inside does NOT mean there isn`t a crack(s) outside.
pics 8,9...different part of house,wall. you can see this crack IS visble on the inside although, some who are selling their house might seal,patch the inside-of-crack to make it look a lil better OR, try and hide-conceal it.
pics 10,11 clay tile, nuttin` at all wrong with them or any clay tiles along footing.they are thicker,heavier and can certainly last a loooong time, no not all but waaay more often than many assume.
A) Repair contractors employ estimators who are typically not Engineers, using TITLES such as "Certified Foundation Inspector" or "Foundation Specialist"....... ..Typically,these estimators will ONLY PROPOSE the type of repair the COMPANY regularly offers, IRRESPECTIVE of your situation. It is NOT uncommon to call out 5 contractors and receive 5 different repair proposals!
-What installing piers does stop any further DOWNWARD movement of the foundation-in the AREA of the piers.....
Use of Piers does NOT remove... Lateral-horizontal soil pressure,can`t solve expanding-contracting soil pressure against a basement wall.Its a ...lateral pressure.
See Corps of Eng link or, many other-links that discuss lateral soil pressure
POINT is, 2 different things here and problem(s) have to be diagnosed...correctly.
You could still have problem(s) even after some piers have been installed. See -ABOUT PIERS '....if the pier is based in a bearing strata that is subject to MOVEMENT then there is a POTENTIAL for continued foundation movement since the pier ITSELF may MOVE'......
'if this latter condition occurs, it is usually because the pier is based in a zone where the MOISTURE content of the SOIL still varies from changes in climatic conditions(rain,no rain etc).Therefore, unless the pier is firmly placed in a stable bearing strata, then that pier has the potential to move as the SOIL EXPANDS and/or CONTRACTS'
Sooooo, as things pertain to basement waterproofing,crack(s) etc.............. when some of these 'ESTIMATORS' come to conclusion YOU supposedly need piers,wall anchors etc...are THEY REALLY QUALIFIED and are they looking out for your best interests,huh?
Or, might they be selling YOU the only repair method they offer,huh? Many of these 'estimators' INCOMES is determined by how much they SELL. If they don`t SELL they aren`t going to be able to pay their own bills AND, the company doesn`t take too kindly to salespeople who don`t...sell.
Para `s 10 and 11... 'Another thing about buying or building a new house: ........pardon my cynicism but it`s just crazy to rely on the Builder`s engineer or the local CODES inspector to find any problems, let alone ADMIT to the existence of problems.Like all sales folks,they`re selling what they`ve got in stock.Believe me when i tell you:their-inventory does not include much science or attention to detail.....
...It`s not unusual for a foundation trench to be a mess,full of soil cut......and not properly compacted.......It`s common for the foundation walls--which are usually buried before the prospective buyer sees them--to LACK proper damp-waterproofing. And then there`s the scrap lumber,construction debris and such that shouldn`t be in the trench but are. The local codes inspectors are supposed to keep all these mistakes from happening but usually don`t'.....
-Clay Raises Homeowners Concerns -Prince William Probes Builders last para..'...but as people move farther from the district to find bigger,cheaper housing,the county has seen an explosion in its population and development.Builders are turning to previously untouched land blanketed by notoriously Bad SOIL'
...'the purpose of the stone or gravel backfill is to relieve the hydrostatic pressure....
...if there is a small hole in the DAMPROOF coating,very little ground moisture will find its way THROUGH to the foundation...even if a perfect damproof coating with no holes, could be applied it would not be a substitute for Waterproofing'...
Part of the problem w/damproofing is,when the soil is BACKFILLED. The soil will settle,will compact and can pretty easily pull down/erode some of this thinly applied asphalt and when it does you basically have NO protection on part(s) of Exterior walls.Often when soil is backfilled there is also wood,bricks,blocks(construction debris) IN-the-soil,ya don`t want this garbage against your walls,against the this spray/rolled on asphalt.
....'an excavator is a big piece of equipment....you want to avoid damage to the foundation walls....unnecessary lateral force...
....another consideration...if you have large rocks/boulders in your backfill make sure that they are Not placed against and do not roll to close to the walls..
licensed contractors can certainly be unscrupulous.just because somebody has a license doesn`t mean they won`t lie to you,misinform you,rip you off.sure, crack down on the unlicensed ones.
service magic 10 point screening process???
how about that deck?
DLLR....'insuring the people coming to your home are really qualified'
better start with the builders. Add inspectors and real-estate agents etc,anyone who has a hand in the cookie jar,start licensing-checking up on ALL please.
This IS what quite a few inside co`s have used inside,under floors and some builders/subs have used outside at depths greater than 1.2 meters. --SELECTING Perf `d pipe 'clayware and rigid plastic perf pipe are generally more expensive than the flexible type and they should be used where the DEPTH of the drainage is such that the LOAD of backfill material would CAUSE a flexible plastic pipe to collapse As a general rule of thumb we do NOT recommend the use of Flex.plastic pipe ate depths GREATER than 1.2 meters'
again, flex,plastic PERFORATED drain tile,SLOTTED drain tile....has slots all the way around,inside co`s have and do use it.
You can google holes up or down or sideways etc all ya like, you`ll find some who say down and some who say up.
PERFORATED pipe UNDRER bsmt floor, lets say with holes DOWN, think about this.Water will travel through it sure but every time it rains x-amount of water gets into tile and some-of-that comes outta the holes,the slots....under and along the drain tile under floor.
Sooooooo, this x-amount of water that CONTINUALLY comes outta tile can CAUSE some amount of soil SETTLING, under the drain tile,under the couple inches of gravel and so, now ya risk some parts of soil, underneath the drain tile to sink,settle and so the tile can sink,settle as its loses soil-support. Water continually going in, coming out,month after month,year after yr. And snaking isn`t gonna do ya much if any good cuz some of the drain tile is uneven,has settled,dropped, lost soil-support
scroll to.. HOLES UP or DOWN? 'Half perforated pipes are laid 'holes up' or 'holes down' depending on their intended use.In most applications, the pipes are alid with holes to BOTTOM of the pipe,the hydrostatic gradient discussed above ensures that the pipe functions as a conduit for groundwater.For collector drains,HOWEVER,OR for systems that are connected to conventional DRAINAGE SYSTEMS, the pipes should be laid with the holes UPPERMOST.' As in under a basement floor,aka drainage system.
Back to the first part...i say one more time, think...depending on the 'perforations' if they`re laid DOWN, water WILL STILL come out when used under a basement floor, this may,can cause soil-support under drain tile to settle. Lots of times this soil under floor is already kinda 'mucky'...moist/wet.Some areas under floor can be more saturated than others,just like outside.
http://www.pavingexpert.com/drain03.htm#type SEE IMAGES of 2 kinds of perforated tile on right. They say 4th para...'as a general rule of thumb, we do NOT use FLEX plastic pipe at depths GREATER than 1.2m'
Ask yet again,why have/still are some contractors,builders,subs using it at depths GREATER than 1.2m and...why did city okay it?
See PIC? scroll down see others And yes, roots can,do get under bsmt floors, they sure do.Ya don`t think roots can get into perforated tile? Think again. So can soil,muck.
#9 'trench or ditch bottoms containing bedrock, SOFT MUCK or refuse,or other material UNABLE to provide long-term uniform pipe SUPPORT are UNACCEPTABLE'
Did this company 'DEFINE,LOCATE' where the water is FIRST ENTERING? Like umm,maybe run a water-test. i bet they did not,as usual.Just sell people the only thing ya do, inside waterdiverting systems.
Reporter says...'the KEY is to get water away from house'. Hmm, really? WHO says so? Get water away from house huh, thats the 'key'?
If ya LOOK at this homeowners grade yer not gonna get much more of a slope-away from dang house.
The real KEY is NOT diverting surface water but finding,locating where water is first entering...define what the problem is.
Amazing how some fairly intelligent people simply cannot grasp this.
The KEY is to find the pathways that allow water to enter...cracks,loose parging,rod holes,openings along brick ledge,openings around bsmt windows,open mortar joints or possibly, inside under floor...water backing up due to blockage between house/floor and street.
NONE of these requires any Inside system, no de-watering system. An exp`d-honest plumber or an exp`d-honest Waterproofing contractor is what just about ALL homeowners on this PLANET need to SOLVE problem(s).Yet, we never get any love...nary one call from media asking the real experts what EXACTLY a homeowner should look for,do.
Now why ya think that is...some of us been around 10-30+ YEARS.Not one soul from our beloved media calls,99% of every article i find is DIRECTLY related to inside systems. Money wins...follow the money.
http://www.bdws.com/html/theproblem.html They don`t mention,show pictures of CRACKS,loose parging etc on exterior..nah. Don`t talk about snaking storm trap cleanout etc,nah.Don`t wanna inform people about lateral soil pressure,roots agst outside of bsmt walls,deterioration of wall, nah.
Tell ya what, yet again this kinda crap is misleading the public, omitting material facts,and more dumb az remarks about exterior work....and so on.INCOMPETENT!!
The TITANIC....how,why did it sink...take on water?
Was it because of hydrostatic pressure from water in OCEAN..huh? Was it because there were no DRAIN TILES around the TITANIC,huh?
COME ON!
It took on water,sank like a ROCK because it hit a BIG dang ICEBERG which caused a hole/tear in da dumb boat! CAUSED openings which allowed water in! DUH
Deeper ya go in ocean the more pressure, yet SUBMARINES do NOT succumb to this pressure because they`re BUILT to withstand it, UNLIKE homes,basements wall,basement floors. Thats the builder,designer etc fault.
People need to demand their new homes to be built,designed to KEEP water out,withstand lateral soil pressure. How about bsmt floor, jesus, some are 1-2" thick-thin! lol Wonderful.
Then some wonder WHY basements leak!!!!!!!! Chtt, ya don`t plan,design,build em to keep water out. They don`t waterproof them don`t backfill with most-all gravel,sand.Some omit reinforcing rod etc etc.
Then, on bsmt floors they pour em 1-3"!! The AMHERST LINK says 4 of the 5 basement floors they 'cored'(to check thickness) were SIGNIFICANTLY thinner than specs/blueprint called for! Thanks Mr builder/sub-contractor.
And some wonder why their bsmt floor cracks,why wall cracks,why basements leak,why walls bow in,why mold/efflorescence grows on walls,why termites and other lil fellas are crawling around in basement/house.
Q)..water leaking through cracks...supposedly been told this `n that.... A) ...injection is best method to fix wall cracks and leaks in your poured wall
Notice link...'Opinion'. Yep, and everybody has their opinions incl`g Haege, the handyman.How many waterproofing jobs has he done? Is he an expert on this subject? Simple questions.Hey Mr Haege, why not ADD the FOLLOWING FACTS in YOUR RECOMMENDATION, huh? Give your readers more info-facts, be more THOROUGH.
http://www.wes.army.mil/REMR/pdf/cs/mr-3-9.pdf ...Crack Repair Method:Epoxy Injection -Applications and 'LIMITATIONS' "Epoxy injection has been successfully used in the repair of cracks in buildings,bridges,dams and other types of concrete structures. HOWEVER, unless the crack is DORMANT(or the CAUSE of cracking is REMOVED,thereby making the crack dormant),it will PROBABLY RECUR, possibly somewhere else in the structure..."
Got that? CAUSE of the crack is REMOVED. If the cause is expanding-contracting soil pressure,roots,a porch footing or other exterior problem then LOTS of luck w/yer injection.One reason why Crack Team(they do injections) had 20+ customer complaints about a year or so ago.
Q)..crack in basement wall..leaks, what to do? A)..you have 2 options. First is polyurethane injection...drill holes...pump urethane in crack...gives a COMPLETE seal throughout entire crack, INSIDE to OUT. BUT...we have found that over TIME the urethane SHRINKS and the cracks LEAKS AGAIN.
LOLOL...just stated this is option number 1, just said it gives a complete seal throughout crack, inside out etc. NO it DOESN`T! Have yer to see one injection go through a crack in basement wall to outside. Maybe we`ll finally see ONE before we die....maybe.
So, guess #1 isn`t much of an 'option' huh? Incompetent statements.
...they then say SECOND OPTION is Flex ME Span...developed a breakthrough crack repair method, it supposedly eliminates messy,UNRELIABLE EPOXY or URETHANE INJECTIONS. They say this NEW repair method is 'revolutionary and PERMANENT..works EVERY time'. REALLY?
Since it`s NEW and ya haven`t used it for 10-20 YEARS, how the crap ya know it`s PERMANENT and works EVERY TIME? Gimmie a break will ya. One claim after another.
Say this again, these so called ijection experts/waterproofing experts...one minute tell the public their-polyurethane injections gives a COMPLETE seal,inside to out.Then says...they found out over time the urethane shrinks and crack LEAKS AGAIN and then adds their NEW product eliminates the messy,unreliable epoxy/urethane injections.
http://www.irbdirekt.de/daten/iconda/06089010294.pdf This guy says....'epoxy injection repairs of alive cracks in concrete are prone to DETERIORATION by fatigue resulting from expansion/contraction of concrete..' -past studies, 'large number of studies been reported,HOWEVER, most of them reported ONLY the effect of repair using UN-exposed specimens based on SIMPLE-testing...'
Mr H....did you read wes.army.mil,cause of cracking removed/dormant? Right...not all cracks are 'alive' and sometimes injections will work,last for awhile. On the other hand, there ARE many cracks that aren`t dormant ok? Like these.... http://www2.snapfish.com/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=2165326...1847456/t_=122238283
We have infrequent but very real problems with water in the basement of our 1948 concrete-block foundation home. After more than 2-or-so days of hard rain, the floor around the furnace will get damp but never actually puddle. Worse, after another 2-or-so days of rain, we get water seeping in where the concrete block foundation/cement floor meets and pooling. Not enough to flood the basement, but certainly enough to damage trim/drywall/cabinets/etc. Problem is, THE LEAKY WALL IS UNDER A SLAB. The house is a split-level and the leaky wall right smack in the middle of the footprint of the house (the basement is only half the footprint), which says to us, "exterior excavation not an option".
Two years ago, we had record-breaking flooding in the area. The backard was a swimming pool and water was _spouting_ out of the walls onto the furnace (looked just like the comic of Calvin peeing on something!) in our basement. Last summer, we regraded parts of the yard away from the house, added landscaping, replaced an attached concrete patio with a properly-sloped stone patio that has integrated drainage, put drainage in the backyard and side yards, tied in the gutters, keep them clean, and ran all drainage to the front yard, which sits lower than the house and back yard. This week, we had record-breaking flooding. Again. (Makes us want to move back home to MI) Water in the basement again, but this time no spouting walls, and it took longer for the furnace floor to get damp. But the leekage and pooling from the wall/floor joint started on day 4 of this glorious rain. So...
We have to do something... we're engineers by nature so we have hesitated to do ANYthing with interior treatments due to the overwhelming feeling that they're gimmicky and ineffective, but without access to the foundation wall from the outside, we still have to try something...
Any advice? We thought about taking the pets and leaving town for a weekend and torching the place, but the irony is that we wonder how well a house with concrete floors and brick walls would burn when it's been raining for 4-5 days and everything is soaked. ;-)
Appreciate your time, C & J
Posts: 2 | Location: Northern Virginia | Registered: 12 May 2008
