As a contractor, I will admit that there have been SE's that have muddied the waters on repairs. Of course there are things that we will encounter in the field that cannot be accounted for by the engineer design.

However, they have also proven to be a valuable resource on many projects. In fact, some of our best projects come earmarked to us from SE's in all four of our markets. And in structuraleng's defense, his post was ok with the exception of the last sentence. One of the best possible scenarios would be to find an SE and contractor that are working together so that everything is accounted for on both ends. Sometimes overkill is not a bad thing, especially if the Homeowner is willing to invest and ensure they won't have to worry about it ever again.

I wasn't talking about that kind of overkill. I was talking about this kind: "Gee, I don't know what the heck is causing this problem, and no one has ever trained me to properly diagnose the cause, or at least eliminate a few of the possible causes, so I'm just gonna throw everything I know at it and hope one of the measures happens to cure the problem." That kind.

And you'll notice, after he jumped all over a few people who might not have known words as big as he knew, he has apparently left the forum, without ever once really attempting to help anyone.

Here is why I called a professional engineer on my waterproofing project. I made the mistake of going to licensed waterproofing contractors first! Years of real life experience, they said. Lifetime warranty, they cooed. References, they lied. I took the hook and paid. Blah! Was I ever taken.

After years of warranty work on my inside drain, and wasted money on outside grading, down spout divergence, drive way replacement, etc., I decided to invest in a professional engineer. And will miracles never cease ... he agrees pretty much with Mr. LicensedWaterproofR guy... the grouchy professional. (hat doffed to him) So armed, I went out to get bids from my local exterior waterproof professionals, all with more years experience than Moses had in the desert. Well, what do you know, of the ten that answered I got ten different non-inside solutions. It is truly amazing how experience seems to invite a divergence of opinion. Reminds me of this forum!

Most took the time to badmouth my PE, even when he agreed with what they said. It was actually kind of funny. Still, here is what seems to be missing in the analysis:

1) Trenching, how much should that really cost? Yes, excavation is tricky, and soil can kill. But, hey, it is a trench, we are not building the Taj Mahal.
2) External sumps for drainage to pump water above grade from foundation. Say what? Is this really necessary? OK, you dug a trench, back filled it with pea gravel, stepped it into the clay a bit, but now my house still sits in this clay bowl with nowhere for the water to go to but slosh around my newly WPed foundation. My smartypants PE says you must have a place for that water to exit, and he prefers daylight. Quote: "There is no paintable waterproofing substance made today that will withstand constant submersion under pressure over time. It will fail under those circumstances. You must divert the water to reduce the pressure." Funny, but that seems to be what the manufacturers of those products say, too.
3) Pea gravel -- government recommended -- but everyone wants to sell me 5/8" bluestone. Sounds like BS, not bluestone. Why the allergy to pea gravel, is it cost?
4) Elastomeric membrane! No one wants to tell me what they use or why? Most manufacturers only warranty theirs for just ten years! Listen, I'm not digging another drain (sounds more expensive than hole) in ten years. Elastocheese, says I. What's the best, cost be ****ed? Heck, I'll wrap'er in Saranwrap if I got to.
5) Drain tile: poly stuff looks like cheap cr'p that will crush. Costs about a buck a foot, or less, in the 'Depot. Why not ceramic or some other thing?
6) "Engineers over-engineer." Ha-ha-ha. That's called planning for the worst case. See, you don't know if conditions will get worse, but you plan for it anyway. That's standard engineering practice, BTW. Seriously, if this guy wants to make my basement drier than dry, I love it. If there is anything that could possibly be worse than the dry basement I overpaid for, then it must be the cheaper job that failed and that I now have to pay for AGAIN. Believe me I LIVED IT.
7) Bowed walls, yeah I got one of those. Engineer says excavation to relieve pressure, rebar and masonry grout slurry throughout the wall cavities is really the only lasting solution, other then totally removing the wall and rebuilding. He says that external bracing is cheaper, but, again, that alone will probably fail over time.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Nano Fish,

Boy Ricky, you don't quit, do you. I can go back and find your quotes about overkill if you want, but it is clear you are childish under your years.
I have made contributions whether you want to recognize them or not. I don't see you knocking my most recent posts, but that will change I'm sure.
Either way, I'm washing my hands of you. You are clearly an immature fellow and I won't be responding to any of your nonsense again.

Here we go again!

Hello. I have been reading the threads about water and block foundations exhaustively since my husband and I discovered that the home we recently purchased has a concrete block basement and water problems. When we purchased the home, the basement was finished. The previous owner stated that the basement had water in it once b/c the sump pump wasn't working correctly. In our neck of the woods, water in basements is not rare, so this didn't scare us too much, especially since it was just a sump issue. Well, we were duped. We removed the sheetrock from walls and found mold on the sheetrock behind the electric baseboard heaters. Then, the first time we had a moderate rainstorm (2 inches or so), we had seepage and water. We discovered a severely clogged drainspout, which was at least one cause of water infiltration. However, I believe we still have water issues. We had seepage along lower blocks after heavy snowmelt too. AND, I believe we have horizontal hairline cracks in the mortar--cracks appear inbetween block and mortar line, correct? Am not sure if the wall is bowing in yet or not. My question is--do I waterproof exterior--do I brace walls in interior--who do I call? Do I need a whole new foundation? I live in central MN near the ND border.

Nano Fish--can you tell me more about your water problems--bowing wall, cost, etc.?

First, you have to diagnose the cause of the symptoms you see. Horizontal cracks in a block wall could be caused by any, or several, of the following:
1. Hydrostatic (water) pressure outside the wall
2. Insufficient wall thickness and/or reinforcing for the height of soil retained
3. For walls parallel with joists, failure to brace the top of the wall into the floor structure
4. Tree roots growing into the outside of the wall
5. Improper backfill (clay soils, large boulders, construction debris)
6. Heavy equipment or vehicles operated too close to the wall either during construction or after

That leads to several questions:
1. What do you know about the prevalent soil type on your property?
2. How thick are the foundation walls?
3. What is the dimension from the outdide grade at the wall to the basement floor?
4. Is there a driveway directly adjacent to the wall, or very close to it?
5. What is the direction of the floor joists above relative to the cracked wall or walls? Parallel to the wall, or perpendicular to the wall?

Before we can discuss a remedy, we have to narrow down the list of possible causes, and the answers to those questions will help.

Call your lawyer if you feel you have been duped.
The mold is created by moisture that cannot dry up fast enough 24 hours or more.
Did you have a home inspection? If so the inspector should have been able to find clues that this was happening. The mold did not just start once you owned the home. Most likely it was there when you purchased it. If the basement was painted real nice when you went to the inspection, that should have been a clue to the inspector that they were hiding something. But typically looking at the back of the stairs, around the heating equipment which would show signs of stains, or rust should have been clues that the basement gets wet.

If you cleared out the outside gutter and it helped. That is a sign that the basement drain and or wall has begun to fail. Not necessarly in a structural way but cracks in the wall are letting water in, or the outside parimiter drain has clogged and is no longer removing the water away from the foundation.
You may need to dig the outside of the foundation and replace the outside drain system to properly correct this issue.

Like Mr. Richard said, we need the information he stated to help you more or at least narrow down what you need to do.

Some more thoughts:

1) Litigation. Costly, time consuming, and ultimately it does not result in better waterproofing. I was awarded money back (half cost of job) but then I must collect myself. If you think litigation is protection you are wrong. It is at best a way to avoid depression of physically engaging your contractor. My advice: get the job done right the first time. Do not rely on litigation to make you whole.

2) Lifetime Warranty. Well, most have so many weasel words in the contract it is not possible to actually collect in court. You agree to allow them to continue to fix, fix, fix. Eventually, you go away and try another source. Take a look at the local BBB and see how many complaints your waterproofer was been hit with in the last 36 months and you will see that if they actually paid out on all the dissatisfaction then they would not be in business. They survive because they don't pay out. They band-aid until you go away. Again, the solution here is quality work, not a vague promise of "satisfaction", which could mean anything.

3) My house is concrete block. It was built with 8" block, not 12". Inferior block suitable for 4' below grade, no more. My local building inspector must not have noticed. (expletive deleted). It was "damproofed" with tar. My local soil is marine clay. The absolute worst for drainage. It goes down about four to five feet and then you hit sandy, rocky bottom. The freezin wet clay has caused damage to my rear concrete wall above the frost line. Horizontal cracking in the upper third of the wall almost above grade -- no water is getting in there though. My backyard drops about three feet down from the ground level near my foundation. My diagnosis: The house is sitting in a clay bowl. Water cannot leave.

4) Interior vs. exterior drainage. Exterior is better IF you can drain to daylight. I had a contractor who wanted to drain all the exterior water into the house and then pump out again. Stupid and costly. Interior drains work, but they do not solve the water ingress problem; they just pump out the water. Don't let some slick contractor tell you that you are on an underground river and the rising water table is flooding your basement--that is, unless he has done soil studies to back up the claim.

5) Leak testing. Absolutely no tests were ever done by contractors to substantiate leak claims. Not a one of them.

6) Exterior waterproofing: Extremely cheap to do when the house is being constructed. Always demand this on new construction, you will never regret doing this over "damp proofing". After construction, this is costly because of the labor of digging the trench around your house, repairing the wall, and backfilling with proper materials. Now, you would not think that doing that to a modest little colonial would cost the same as a new Lexus, but whammo, some think it should.

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