I have a ranch style house in ohio that has a block foundation. It was built in 1967. I found that the strenght piller that holds the weight is bowed at the top about one and a half inches out and two feet down. I noticed that when the ground was very dry there was a seperation in the morder about 1/8 in wide. I forgot that water was dripping in the back and the 1/8 gape has closed. There also has been movement from my concreat slab and dirt from the back of the house. The gap is about 1 inch thick all the way down the house. I had a geotech company come in and wants to dig out 10 feet from the house from on three points of the house. Attach cables to the house then pour concret into trench and put the cables in the concret to ancher the house. This price is $8900. I had a foundation company come out and said they could put steel beams inside of the house and would garentee that it would not move. This was about $3500. Of the two options I belive the first would be better is that correct? I bought the house about 2 years ago at the end of the high housing prices. I don't think I have too much equity in the house and we don't plan on staying ther more than 5 to 10 years longer. I also have found that first floor back door and the bottom back door are very hard to deadbolt. The house is on flat land with a very minor hill in the yard the turns flat as you go out. There also are many cracks in the foundation that are along the morder that I was told not to worry about because the ground moves. Do I spend the $10,000 and put up the ancher or do I just put up the steal beams. If I'm spending $5000 should I just do it right and spend $10000 so buyers will buy later.

thanks,

Scott

You don't do either one until the cause of the bowing is determined and remedied, and if you do that, you might not need anything at all. Walls bow for any of several reasons or combinations thereof;
1. Wall thickness or reinforcing insufficient for the height of soil retained.
2. Soil and/or hydrostatic pressure outside the wall, particularly if you have clay soils.
3. Tree roots growing into the wall.
4. Improper backfill, such as rocks, stumps and/or construction debris.
5. Heavy equipment or vehicles run too close to the wall during construction, or after.
6. Improper or absent bracing from the top of the wall to the floor structure above, especially on walls parallel to the floor joists above.

In order to help you, we would need to know the following:
1. Thickness of wall
2. Dimension (height) from basement floor to top of soil outside
3. Direction of floor joists relative to the bowed wall
4. Type of soil outside the bowed wall

With that information, we can at least narrow down the possible causes, and begin to suggest solutions.

Don't do anything until you know WHY the wall is bowing!! What has been suggested to you are "band-aids"...they attempt to cure the problem without diagnosing the cause. Once you know why the wall is bowing, a solution can be suggested that will work forever. Not before.

It sounds like this wall MAY be a wall parallel to the joists and have a pilaster near the center.

Richard has posed some of the basic needs. - I have a couple of others.

1. If the joists are parallel to the wall, what is the spacing of the blocking between the joists and how far into the basement (bays of joists) does it go?

2. Are there anchor bolts holding the sill plate into the wall and what is the spacing? - Has there been any cracking of walls in the house?

3. What is the slope of the soil away from the house and how long are the downspout extensions?

4. You may not know what the backfill material was, but what is type of soil mative to the home?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: concretemasonry,

1.The Wall is about 7 inches thick
2. The house in the back is like steps for depth:
the first eight feet there is no dept, the
next 5 feet is bout 2 feet, and the rest of
the house is about 3 1/2 to 4 feet deep.
3.The floor joist are north and south and the
wall north and south
4. How do I find the type of soil?

As for the second set of questions. I'm not sure I under stand the first one
2. There are no cracks for the first 10 feet. then after the support beam where is is very slightly bowed, there are cracks on the on the very bottom...looks like they are pushed out about 1/8 of and in maybe a little more ( only the corner of two blocks. then there are many of cracks along the wall all in the seams of the block
3 the slop goes east and west of the house not towards or away.
4. same...how do i find out.

I had Olshan Foundation come out and they want to put some $10,000 water pumping system in the basement called Water Lock System. They would dig all around the foundation (of the whole house not just the back) where they put a draining system under the house in two these two huge pumps that push out the water under ground. They said I don't need archers or steel beams. Three quotes three totally different answers and all about $10,000. I have three more people coming to tell me what they think. any Idea who to call and look a this mess in Cincinnati?

More questions:
1. Is the wall bowed and cracked on the end where the soil is deepest outside?
2. Are you getting any water through the cracks in the wall?
3. Can you see the floor joists above? If so, look for any solid pieces of wood between the joists, from the sill plate on the wall extending into the floor, perpendicular to the joists. That's what concretemasonry meant by "blocking". If you find some, how far apart are they?
4. Exactly how much is the wall bowing?
5. It would be good for you to monitor the bowing for a period of time (weeks or months) to determine whether there is ongoing movement or not. Lay a straightedge where the wall is bowed, and mark the wall where the straightedge is placed. Measure from the end of the straightedge to the wall. Do this every week or two, in exactly the same place (where you've marked the wall) and keep good records of your measurements.

It is possible, if the bowing is slight and the wall is not still moving, that you won't need to do anything. Was the wall bowed when you bought the house? If there is no ongoing movement, maybe a letter from a structural engineer or architect, stating that the bowing is not significant, and poses no danger of failure, will suffice to assure potential buyers.

1. no the bowing is in the 2 to 3 inch depth.
2. no water is getting in
3.yes i can see the boards, and no there are no boards between the joist
4. it at the top 3/4 of the strength beam. Only the top 2 feet are bowed out and I really have to look at it to see that it is bowed. The reason I noticed the problem is there was a 1/8 gap in the was on the straight beam that sticks out about 7 inches from the rest of the wall. then it it closed and went back together and the bow went away a little also.
5. I did that for two months and it did not move. What has moved a lot is the dirt from out side the house and the concrete slab out side the house.

I'm told I should be very concerned about that because of water that is getting in the 1/2 in gap in those places. It would looks like the slab of concrete has sank an moved from the wall. I had one guy come look at this and tell me it was the wight of the cement pushing against the wall that was causing the issue and to just get that up. The problem with that is it does not even touch the house. Could that be causing all the dirt under it to push the wall out? I really appreciate all of your knowledge on this stuff. This is not my cup of tea and I don't want to spend money on something that is not the issue.

That all depends on how thick that concrete slab is, but I doubt that the slab is causing the problem. If the bowing is happening at the top of the pilaster, but the earth outside is a few feet below that point, something isn't making sense, but if the bowing comes and goes, it suggests the presence of expansive clay soil or hydrostatic pressure outside the wall.

Your description of soil heights outside the wall is unclear. Please describe them again, and be sure the exterior description and the interior descriptions match. Is the cracking at the point where the soil is deepest outside the wall? Is the soil at the full height of the wall at that point? When you say "the first 8 feet", we can't tell which direction you're starting from. Try it again using North and South, or East and West, whichever applies.

When looking at my wall form the outside. Looking east from the west side of the house there is a walk out door. to the left of the door there are a set of "steps" of dirt against the foundation. So what I was trying to say (not very well) is going east from the edge of the house the first 8 feet it is at ground level. then the next step is about 2 1/2 to 3 feet of dirt about 7 feet across. Then another 5 feet (east) there is dirt that is about 4 feet deep which about 5 long. Then it meets the patio slab of concrete. The bowed part is right at the dirt level at the top of the beam from the inside. There blocks that are coming out at the bottom that are just to right of that bulge. Is there a way I could send you pictures. I feel like an idiot trying to explain this to you. As I'm sure you can tell. I know nothing about houses and repairs, which is why I'm so concerned about the $10,000 someone wants me to spend for something I may or may not need. What do i do about expansive clay? I have heard about this but not sure what to do about fixing it?

and the bowing par is at the 4 feet deep stage.

Instead of getting companies coming out to give you suggestions so they can get a job, why not get an independant professional engineer to look at it. Since he is registered, HE IS WORKING FOR YOU and not working for a company that does the work.

I have tried to find a gheotech who does homes with no luck. Any suggestions on where to look? I've Googled it about 100 times

IF the problem was caused by expansive clay, and at this point it's only a guess. the cure is to excavate along the foundation for a width of 18 inches to 24 inches, removing the clay, and backfilling with pea gravel. While the wall is excavated you may as well waterproof that part.

I don't think you necessarily need a geotech. Perhaps your local building department can tell you if there is expansive clay in your area, or a simple hand-dug test pit will reveal what's under the surface. But that was only a guess...the pictures will help with an understanding of the issue.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Richard Hetzel,

I'm looking to get the pictures to you Richard. I talked to two more people who have told me the same thing as the very first guy. All I need to do is get the concrete up that is sinking. They all stated that the wall is not bowing in enough to be a problem, a removing it should relive the pressure. but to get it up before winter. As for expansive clay...I had two people tell me the dirt next to the house is not high enough to be the problem. I've called an engineering company and told them my problem. They did not work on houses but did have a number to a place the did. I called them and one of the engineer, happens to live 5 houses down from me and will come look at it for free. We shall see what happens.

So.....I had the engineer come out and tell me that The concrete is a HUGE problem in the back. He said the pressure from the concrete is pushing the ground into the house. He is going to put crack gagers in the cracks with appoxy, so I can see if the whole gets larger when I remove the concrete. (This all for FREE) He said right now that I should hold off on doing anything else. He said that if the wall did move more that I should do the anchors.
I had one more guy come out after that, he said that anchors are made for poured foundation and not block and the correct stability would not be there. Is this correct? This is the first time I've heard of this. he said that for $3600 he would put up supports on the wall with the stuff they build nascars' with. (i can't remember the name. it is very thin objects that have steel in them. He said it is the strongest thing there is beside steel beams) he wanted to put in about 8 of those on the wall (every 4 feet). He said the for the price I was quoted to do the anchors ($8900) he would push the wall back and put those things up and the whole wall was guarantee not to move. Which is the best solutions. I should get pictures soon. thanks

Your still not getting it. The soil is the issue. Not the patio on the top. The displacement of the weight of the patio should have no bearing on the foundation. Otherwise all patios would cause walls to push in.
Your issue is simply clay soil that is expanding when it gets wet.
the crack checking is good but can take some time. You can do your own crack checking by using a microscope slide and using appoxy to hold it on the wall. But a little bit on each side of the crack and glue the glass slide to it. If the wall is moving the glass will crack.

a few thoughts.
If the crack is worn over on the edges and or has paint in it bridging the gaps and you know the paint is fairly old, the movement is old.
If the cracks are sharp edged, or the paint that may bridge the cracks from prior painting has cracks in the paint, The wall is moving.

Heli coils, braces the other garbage that this nascar man is selling are all bandaids. Get to the root of the issue. Its soil pressure on the wall. Remove the patio, dig out the soil and properly water proof and back fill without expansive material. If the walls are shifted to a point where they are unsafe, them brace the framing of the house and repair the wall once its dug out.
Check with your homeowners insurance. You may have some sort of coverage for some of the work.
Do not waste your time with the other methods. They cost a lot as you now know, and if they do not do the job, you would still end up digging out the ground anyway.

Home Care Club is right. The concrete patio is barely heavier than the soil that supports it. Surface issues are rarely the cause of bowed basement walls. Subsurfcae soils and conditions almost always are. I agree also that helical piers or carbon fiber straps, or even steel beams, are nothing but band-aids. Without accurately diagnosing the cause of the problem, "solutions" like that are not solutions at all, because the forces that caused the wall to bow are still out there.

Why resist the one procedure that can end your problems forever? Dig, repair, waterproof, backfill with correct material, and you're done.

Ok. I get it..SO I need to dig up the spot and fill it with pee gravel and water proof it. Do I dig around the whole back of the house or only where the cracks are. The pourch is sinking and cracking all over the place.It also has seperated from the base of the house by about 2 inches. the lenght of the house is about about 70 feet long. The cracking is about half of that. Half of it where is is cracking there is not much dirt to remove (I could do it my self). The other side is about 8 feet deep to the bottom of the foundation. This would be very expensive. also.. should I have the wall pushed back in. The bottom of the wall has come in about 1/3 of an inch more than the top. Do I have some one come dig it out, then push the wall back in? Since the wall did move, do I put some kind of support on the wall or once I move the bad soil do I assume it will be corrected.

I have tried draw the picture of the house for you. I took some last night and will get them my brother to post them,

house
door___
l l movment/bowing
Concrete_________l stooplconcrete l__
l__
dirt l_
l__
steps l
l
DOOR is____>_l

Yes, Dig it out, fix wall and cracks and then bsack fill etc.
I would if it was me not just repair the area that is damaged. Reason being, you have the equipment there to do the job. Do the entire back wall and wrap if you can around the two corners a few feet as well. corners typcially leak first as seen by staining that runs higher on the inside then other areas of the basement wall. This should not add to much more to the cost of fixing.

That is the thing. The person who is removing the concrete is doing just that, only removing the concrete. Then I would have to call someone to do the rest. If it was just the one half I could maualy remove the dirt and put the pee gravel there. If I do the whole wall I hve to call someone. Do I pay to have the wall pushed back the 3/8ths when I remove the soil and water proof it or just fix the soil and water proof. The price on the two of these will be a total different. thanks