We are hoping to purchase our second home where we hope to stay indefinitely. We noticed a crack in the foundation wall located in the garage. The disclosure form also indicated that a previous owner had 2 walls rebuilt, reinforced and waterproofed due to bowing and water entry. We had a certified structural engineer come take a look. We unfortunately can't see the sections that were rebuilt, as the that part of the basement had been finished (but looks fine-no cracks or water leakage). The front and back walls of the basement are bowing up to 1 1/4 inches and the engineer is recommending wall anchors(10), interior french drains and a sump. We live in an area with clay soil and the house sits at the bottom of a hill. The engineer is confident that the anchors will solve the problem, but we are very nervous about the whole prospect. Should we run from this house? (This is the only house for sale in the neighborhood we want that we liked) or will it be fine once the work is done? What do wall anchors do to resale value? Can you drywall over them? Do you need to crank them indefinitely?
One key question: did the "certified structural engineer" diagnose the cause of the problem before recommending a "solution"? It doesn't sound like he did.
Are the bowed walls parallel with, or perpendicular to, the floor joists at the top? If parallel, are the tops of the walls correctly braced into the floor structure? What is the distance from the basement floor to the grade outside the wall? Can you tell how thick the wall is? Most important, were these questions investigated by the engineer and discussed with you before he made his recommendation?
I have no experience with wall anchors, so someone else will have to answer the question. At this point, from what we know, I can't be sure they are the correct (or cheapest) answer.
Architect (NY) and Home Designer (PA)
Posts: 2486 | Location: Tobyhanna, PA | Registered: 24 October 2005
The enginner is confident wall anchors will solve problem huh? Interior french drain huh? Well good luck is all i`ll say to that.
Does engineer realize when a wall bows in, the exterior is cracked,has cracks? Enginner isn`t worried/concerned about allowing FURTHER water to enter exterior cracks? Can allow termites,ants etc to enter.
And did engineer write down the most likely CAUSE the walls have bowed inward?
Wall anchors don`t remove expanding-contracting clay off exterior bsmt walls,or roots or porch footings and other possible exterior pressures and, creates more openings through/on exterior, not concerned about any of this eh? Wall anchors might provide x-amount of support where they are placed, thats all ya can hope for.
Ya see exterior vertical cracks? See HORIZONTAL crack just above footing? See how wall was pushed in by weight-of expanding-contracting CLAY `n roots?
So, enginner wants to leave exterior cracks open and suggests putting in an inside system lololol. Okie dokie. If 1 or both of those walls are anything like this,move on to next house would, my 2 cents.
-Why Foundations Fail http://www.bobvila.com/HowTo_Library/Why_Foundations_Fa...oundation-A2095.html 'Often however, the biggest LOAD on the foundation is NOT the weight of the house, but the pressure(and weight) of the SOIL around the foundation.Called the lateral load, it is the amount of pressure exerted on basement walls..'
Resale value is a hard question to answer because it depends on the integrity of the anchor used, what it's designed to do, how it is installed, and the reputation and experience of the contractor and manufacturer installing them. Since there are many anchor systems out there, you have to understand the soil movement and what level within that soil are the anchors going into. In most cases, you can frame over and around the retaining plates, but you want to ensure that your research on anchors include how often, if at all, they will need adjusted.
If your goal is to correct the wall(s), then the wall(s) will need to be excavated, which is healthy because it removes the offending soil and allows the wall to be "pulled" back into place without the resistance from the soil. Keep in mind that "deadman" anchors go into the same soil levels (a flat or slight downward degree plane) that are causing the problem, and therefore may not hold the wall (depending on your soils). Various anchors will have Helix plates (helical anchors) that will go in at a downward angle, usually between 20-30 degrees, and will torque into a more solid, less volitale layer of soil that is at or below the level of your footing. With the wall excavated, you can get a better pack/fill of the holes cored into the wall, as required for any anchor system, you can apply a waterproofing membrane, and get a solid gravel backfill. Often this is not required for stabilizing only, but you will want to have this included in the repair regardless because the cost difference is usually not enough to not do it.
If you decide to seek proposals from contractors, learn as much as you can about their company, their anchors, the engineering behind it, and of course what their opinion is of the cause. The scarier and bigger they make it sound, the more likely it is a good sales pitch. I am curious though why the engineer recommended an interior system as well... you may not want to dislose that right away to any of the contractors because they may try to use that recommendation as justification for a bigger job and it may not be needed anyway.
Disclaimer: Again, this is just information on wall anchors to provide an answer to your questions and not an endorsement to have them installed.
Posts: 26 | Location: Midwest | Registered: 31 May 2008
The only problem I see with the wall anchors in this picture are that the threads run parallel to the floor, meaning that they are a "deadman" system. The other problem with this picture is that there is water on the floor, which means that was not addressed. Foundation repair and waterproofing may go hand in hand, but they should not be mistaken as either or types or repairs, as each should be completed according to the problem that needs corrected. I believe that waterproofing should be completed with foundation repair, and most of the time waterproofing can prevent settlement, but certainly not always, especially when involving downward/vertical settlement.
Posts: 26 | Location: Midwest | Registered: 31 May 2008
I am sorry you did not get any intellegent answers to your original post - Too many people with diarhera of the mouse/cut/paste.
Do you have any factual information on your house instead of the "Laurel & Hardy" guesses about your problem? The reference to other posts and photos seem to be be irrelavent to your real problem.
Obvious, repairs are always a "red flag" to future purchasers. Documentation of the repairs and engineers opinion will be of value to you. Your photos would be much more helpful thant "cut and paste irrelavent outside opinions." - It is unfortunate that some peole use a forum to confuse people and make it a personal podium.
Posts: 153 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: 28 July 2007
I believe there were some VERY intelligent answers to the question. In the absence of information, sometimes more questions are the right answer. And surely, the recommendation of wall anchors PLUS an inside drain system clearly does not solve the problem, because the cause remains undiagnosed. Watergeek's answer was intelligent, because he suggested excavating, trying to pull the wall back to vertical, AND waterproofing on the outside where it belongs. I think I will change my opinion of Watergeek with that answer. I also think that illustrations of incorrect wall anchors and unsolved problems, and opinions of expert third-party sources go a long way toward establishing credibility of the one who posts in that manner.
If and when I get answers to the questions I asked, perhaps I can do more than guess at a solution, but without information, that's all anyone can do, and at this point, one man's guess is as good as another's, except that the structural engineer who had the advantage of actually seeing the structure seems to be trailing quite badly in the race.
Architect (NY) and Home Designer (PA)
Posts: 2486 | Location: Tobyhanna, PA | Registered: 24 October 2005
I am sorry you did not get any intellegent answers to your original post - Too many people with diarhera of the mouse/cut/paste.
Do you have any factual information on your house instead of the "Laurel & Hardy" guesses about your problem? The reference to other posts and photos seem to be be irrelavent to your real problem.
Obvious, repairs are always a "red flag" to future purchasers. Documentation of the repairs and engineers opinion will be of value to you. Your photos would be much more helpful thant "cut and paste irrelavent outside opinions." - It is unfortunate that some peole use a forum to confuse people and make it a personal podium.
Mr Conc, I haven`t given any intelligent answers,links? What makes YOU an expert on waterproofing/foundation work? Have read MANY of YOUR replies on numerous mess boards, i have yet to see ONE knowledgeable reply on THIS subject.Got some news for you, stick with pouring driveways/sidewalks, your OUTCLASSED here. Its like Secretariat running against a $5,000 claimer.
And Geek, what you think i`ve been saying? Said ten thousand freakin times, Inside wall anchors and carbon fiber straps do NOT 'waterproof' the OBVIOUS EXTERIOR cracks,j krsit.
Those who install most of these wall anchors and straps also ONLY INSTALL INSIDE SYSTEMS...hello? So, as in picture where anchors were installed the WALL still leaks because they didn`t go outside `n waterproof the cracks plus, installing these anhcors created MORE openings on outside for water to enter into the blocks.
On top of that, once a wall LOSES some of its LATERAL RESISTANCE it 'could' begin to bow in MORE...especially if/when ya leave expanding-contracting soil,roots,porch footing etc against the exterior of wall...get RID of what does, what could certainly CAUSE MORE DAMAGE to wall!!!
Some walls will bow in, and crack and won`t bow/move in much more in future, and some will continue to bow in,get worse w/cracks widening.
Say this again too, some posting here are these Inside nitwits and some of them have MULTIPLE names,nics.
http://construction-resource.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5802 Concretemasonry on diff mess board.."The best way to have a dry basement is to have draintile installed when home is built. This removes most of the water AND REDUCING the PRESSURE ON THE WALL,so the sealing problem is minimized or non-existant..." LOLOL wonderful
You`d have to have some screws loose to blindly believe and state that, Inside drain tiles REDUCES PRESSURE against a basement wall.You are sadly mistaken but you go right ahead and keep posting bad info.
Intelligent answer? or diarhera? Laurel and Hardy GUESS? Yep, without a doubt.
Mr Intelligent answers w/chagne the DRAINAGE! He fails to understand block walls OFTEN have exterior cracks which are NOT VISIBLE inside. This is incompetence,lack of knowledge on THIS SUBJECT.
Conc-masonry says here, that "Exterior waterproofing does nothing to prevent leakage at that site" (wall-floor joint) http://www.diychatroom.com/showthread.php?p=120535#post120535 Has Mr Expert looked at pic`s posted? Most of those pics i`ve posted were homeowners who had/saw water-leakage come in at the WALL-FLOOR JOINT! Exterior waterproofing stopped/prevented this....duh!
pics 4,6,7,8,9 Exterior cracks, its where water FIRST ENTERS into the HOLLOW block wall ya dummy.Then INSIDE, it enters at wall-floor joint ONLY. Only an expert would know this shtt. pics 10,11 See any crack on INSIDE CORNER?
HO has water coming in,1 wall..Concretemasonry says 'dig down and put in drain tile....' Nothing about finding-locating the actual problem(s)/entryways,no water test,nothing.Apparently believes drain tile is the answer to all leaks. http://www.diychatroom.com/showthread.php?p=110752#post110752 So, this is an 'intelligent answer' to question?
Thank you to all for the information. In response to some of the additional questions: We hired an independent structural engineer who does not work for a waterproofing or anchor company. There is not currently a water issue in the basement-(I should qualify that by saying that there is a small area of efflorescence in a utility room in the corner of the front wall). Our engineer has diagnosed the problem as excessive backfill heights relative to the wall thickness and the likely use of clay or silt/clay common borrow backfill material resulting in excessive lateral earth pressure. We know that a former owner did have one and a half walls "rebuilt, reinforced and waterproofed" but we are trying to get more information about what was actually done. The walls that were rebuilt are now covered with drywall, although there are no obvious problems there (no water, no cracks or bows in the drywall). The walls were constructed with 10" think hollow concrete masonry units. We cannot see where the sill plate and the top of the foundation wall meet (due to interior finishing) the engineer believes that the sill plates were properly anchored because there was no inward movement of the foundation wall from under the sill. As I said before, the house is on a corner lot on a hill. The one wall that was rebuilt is the one that faces the hill. There is no landscaping on that side of the house. The window wells are also set too low. We believe that a prior owner had an exterior drain installed against this wall only. (But there is no evidence of this as there is grass along that side). (This wall is not currently experiencing any issues we can see). The engineer recommends the Grip-Tite System. It is warranted for 50 years with a transferable 25 year warranty.
The question I would have is that why would anyone use a Grip-Tite System or any other anchor system for that matter if you can dig the outside of the wall. Allow it to come back to level or support home and push wall back to level. Then properly water proof the walls from the outside, install drainage system and then back fill with stone and no clay. By using anchors all your doing is supporting the wall where the anchors are, doing nothing to stop the water which leaks into the walls as shown as evidence of white powder on walls. Or causes the soil that is not removed by excavation to swell and put additional pressure on the walls.
In order for wall anchor systems to hold back the pressure on the walls the entire wall must be strong enough collectively in order for this method to work. If the wall was that strong it would not have cracked in the first place.
Read the warranty carefully. Why would the warranty time shorten with transfer? And what does it cover. Just the spot where the anchors are located? What about the water entry where they puncture through the walls? Doubt that it covers water entry.
Get a price to dig the outside and do the job properly. Your not stopping the pressure problem by adding support. All you doing is holding back the pressure. Why not remove it by digging and fixing correctly?
Posts: 1010 | Location: New Jersey | Registered: 31 January 2006
There may be a good reason to use wall anchors if they are needed, even with digging. See my earlier post. However, IMO the Grip Tite system, especially on a hill, will definitely not work as well as Helicals.Against negative grade?
That may sound biased, but honestly if you look at the diagram on the link, those cross plates can still shift with the soil even on level grade. This is the "deadman" type system I was talking about. I'm only opposed to them because I have experience with them and they just aren't good enough for what they are designed to do. I am sure they may be cost effective, but IMO it's not worth it.
Posts: 26 | Location: Midwest | Registered: 31 May 2008
And by the way, thanks Hetzel... I think I came across the wrong way on my earlier posts. However, I still believe that there are some situations where you may have to do more than just excavate the wall, and that's where I think we got each other wrong. I only speak from experience, providing warranties for what we install, and certainly backing them up. But, the main thing we do agree on is that you have to do your home work before "selling" any kind of repair.
Posts: 26 | Location: Midwest | Registered: 31 May 2008
Helical piers won`t help when the problem has to do w/lateral pressures,cracks-leaks due to lateral pressures. they are OFTEN sold to HO`s on false pretenses,blccht claims on what the actual problem is.
Some cracks occur during,not long after house was built. Crack(s) occurred,then may get wider due to the crap backfilled SOIL settling next to/along wall in coming months...doesn`t mean footing-house itself is settling.
I never said anything about vertical or "footing" settlement...sorry for the confusion. Helical Wall Anchors are what I was referencing, not Helical underpinning anchors. And yes, if done as I suggested above, they will definitely and permanently help against lateral pressure from soil.
If cracks are getting wider, then there is usually good reason to look for either vertical settlement of the footings (house) and/or horizontal movement of the wall.
Posts: 26 | Location: Midwest | Registered: 31 May 2008
