found this during my research. looks interesting. i'm more interested in the floor/wall joint sealing compound since i might have water coming up through the floor.

sounds like they're questioning some of the 'ancient' methods being proposed here has anyone had any experience with this product?

http://sanitred.com/BasementWaterproofing.htm

It is a polyurethane coating that remains flexible. Because of that, it is most effective when applied to to a sound, uniform, crack-free surface that has been prepared to obtain maximum bond and adhesion.

If you have cracks or joints, the pressure from the moisture will concentrated in the area that bridges the crack. This is an area with minimal bond and adhesion.

It can work if you do not have water pressure behind the cracks/joints. If can be effective over properly repaired cracks is the surface is prepared to acheive the desired bond or adhesion.

Applying to concrete that is damp can reduce the adhesion. The choice of materials that can be applied over it is limited.

Still another quick fix method for those who prefer to do it the wrong way. Not saying that this will not stop water but it will not last and will cause a host of other issues in the future to the existing walls.

2nd the existing block wall must never had any paint on it or it will not be warranted by the supplier. ("The first thing you would do is prepare the substrate. Meaning remove any loose crumbly substrate, make sure the substrate is clean, dry, free of any previous applied products, and foreign matter")

You simply cannot clean and prep a block wall clean enough for it to meet the manufactures guidlines.

But understand what this does. It stops the water from getting into the room. Thus keeps the water inside the block where it will destroy it. Once it has corroided the interior of the block and it begins to show up inside, the damage is done. I had a home that our company worked on that had a similer product installed. Every place we attempted to put a tapcon into crumbled. The entire wall needed to be replaced. Not a comforting thought when the same wall was holding up the house.

This product like others that are painted on the inside of the wall is like patching the outside of a pool to stop a leak. Does not work.

thanks for the replies. i see your points. i can see this being a potential option if you just can't externally waterproof for whatever reason and you want to stop the leaking inexpensively without putting in a french drain. as i said my interest is more with the wall/floor joint compound as i cannot deal with this from the outside.

quote:

Originally posted by The Home Care Club LLC:
Still another quick fix method for those who prefer to do it the wrong way. Not saying that this will not stop water but it will not last and will cause a host of other issues in the future to the existing walls.

since I'm also considering the product, could you be more specific on why you don't think it would last and what issues you think it will cause? The company has been around for a long time.

there's lots of right ways to do things...what's yours?

quote:

2nd the existing block wall must never had any paint on it or it will not be warranted by the supplier. ("The first thing you would do is prepare the substrate. Meaning remove any loose crumbly substrate, make sure the substrate is clean, dry, free of any previous applied products, and foreign matter")

You simply cannot clean and prep a block wall clean enough for it to meet the manufactures guidlines.

did you read the information on their web site? The have stated you could leave significant amounts of old paint on walls and if leakage occured, spot repair it easily. However, if you are going to frame a wall in front, you need to get the surface as clean as you can

quote:

But understand what this does. It stops the water from getting into the room. Thus keeps the water inside the block where it will destroy it. Once it has corroided the interior of the block and it begins to show up inside, the damage is done. I had a home that our company worked on that had a similer product installed. Every place we attempted to put a tapcon into crumbled. The entire wall needed to be replaced. Not a comforting thought when the same wall was holding up the house.

This product like others that are painted on the inside of the wall is like patching the outside of a pool to stop a leak. Does not work.

water "corrodes" concrete? My understanding is that block can deteriorate for a number of reasons, but presence of water is only an issue if it freezes.

the presence of water shouldn't erode the concrete. if that were the case all below ground concrete over time would crumble from water in the soil pushing up against it. i would think water passing through the capillaries over time could leech the concrete of minerals and weaken its structure. all the more reason to either seal the capillaries from the inside or prevent it via waterproofing the outside.

Ha!!

they don`t quit, they keep pushing crap on others.

hey...you aware BBB has Unsatisfactory record for `em due to unanswered complaints? Yeah, sure,right..great way to do business.

read info on website????
there are FALSE CLAIMS, some real bs within those statements!

some are one taco short of a combination plate.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: LicensedWaterproofR,

quote:

Originally posted by LicensedWaterproofR:
Ha!!

they don`t quit, they keep pushing crap on others.

they do? references?

quote:

hey...you aware BBB has Unsatisfactory record for `em due to unanswered complaints? Yeah, sure,right..great way to do business.

yes, three in three years. They aren't a BBB member, so have no obligation to respond, and I can't see the details of the complaints, so can't assess their merits.

quote:

read info on website????
there are FALSE CLAIMS, some real bs within those statements!

there's certainly some marketing hyperbole. You always have to use a discretionary marketing fluff filter.

quote:

some are one taco short of a combination plate.

my initial inclination was to just kill filter you as a useless troll, but I poked around and found some useful information in some of your posts scattered around the net.

Unfortunately, your hobby of bashing sani-tred has devolved to the level to impair your credibility on any technical discussion, but I appreciate your insight on the proper components of the lunch special at a mexican restaurant.

thanks rikki and concretemasonry...I think sani-tred or other polyurethane product will work fine in my application.

same old crap, new nic`s, buddies,but same bs story! thats all.

The quote I had as a response was off their web site. They said that you cannot apply the stuff unless the wall was properly prepped. They may appear to say you can paint it over anything as long as it dry clean etc. But the product must bind with the pores of the cement. Any other product applied before then will prevent this from happening. They will use this as the answer why the product failed. Which it will. The vapor pressure on the wall will simply push the paint off the block. You see this all the time when spalling occurs on block walls that were painted. The paint is still on the spalling but the block wall crumbled behind pushing off both paint and some material.

if the capillaries of the masonry are filled by this product then you've effectively locked out all entrance points. to your point if you don't get complete penetration because of prior surfacing then you're right it can't work to it's full potential. still partial potential might be better for those that just can't externally waterproof. i for one did externally waterproof via the methods described here but during heavy rains i'm getting water coming up through the floor/wall joints. i'm going to try the compound sanitred describes to see if i can lock it out. hydraulic cement has not been successful in this regard so after this try i'm all out of options except for improving the drainage which won't solve the problem entirely just raise the amt of rain that needs to fall for it to happen.

For the record, the presence of water can and does cause concrete blocks to deteriorate, even when not subjected to frost.

Rikky,
If the outside waterproofing failed to properly seal out the water it was simply not done correctly.
But my point is this. Several of us that comment in these threads have been doing this type of work for many years. We are not in the business of just doing it. We do it the right way or at least in my case I do not do it at all. If you ask a question on how and why here you will get a honest answer (even if you do not want to hear it or want to do it) from us. This is not to say you cannot do this another way, Its just from our experiance we know that there is no quick fix when it comes to home repairs or improvements and most quick fixes that I have run across failed after a short time.
Although there are several quality water sealer products out there for the average consumer to use and all work quite well. Some have better warranties they others. But they all have one thing in common. No warranty on damage from water that is trapped behind the wall. Just that it stops the water from coming in. The issue is that after a point in time the interior of the wall will begin to deteriorate because the water has no place to go and at that time cannot be repaired without expenses that go way beyond what proper exterior water proofing.
Look at the grand canyon. Water caused that to happen. It is the most aggressive material out there. Just because it is not flowing like a river it will destroy the interior of the wall without you seeing it going on until its to late.

with all due respect home care i did the job correctly. i slopped inches of tar on my exterior walls all the way down and around the footings. didn't miss a spot. i'm fairly certain at this point the water is coming from underneath which you can't waterproof.

what is your solution for dealing with water that's coming in through the floor/walls joints from underneath the floor? the external methods described here don't work for such a problem.

Richard -

Could you please cite the record stating that water destroys concrete block?

I am on the ASTM committee that writes the standards for the products and testing procedures. In all the years this standard has been in existance, there has never been any facts to support including this potential occurance.

If it is justified, I am sure there could be action to include it in the standards.

I cite personal experience.

Richard -

Thanks for your response.

Since this (ASTM C90) is a national standard that is referred to by the "I" codes and other standards, I was looking for someting I could document formally.

The professionals on the committee do not give a great deal of credibility to local undocumented occurances than may be the result of a local manufacturing/material situation unless there are other similar items to support the effort. In other words, it could be a local situation.

As you know, the question of durability is very complicated. A new freeze-thaw joint by government and national groups study of durability of concrete retaining wall units subjects to saline is will be released soon after about 5 or 10 years of setting parameters and accelerated testing.-It is that slow.

Thanks for the interest.

I would check to see if the water main or the drainage system is leaking into the slab. If the exterior drainage system is installed properly and to the correct debth as well as drained properly away from the foundation water should not be getting up into the floor.
But if this has all be done. Then you will need to dig up the entire floor within the basement and replace it with new gravel plastic and interior drainage pipes. I assume there is no current sump hole within the basement? If not you should find a interior drainage pipe that runs to the exterior of the basement. This pipe may be plugged with silt.
Often on real old homes they simply placed the cement onto the dirt floor. This caused heaving and settlement as the clay within the soil swelled and dryed with the dampness. Not having gravel under the floor or enough gravel water that may enter cannot travel to the drainage system thus comes up throught the floor. Either way you have your work cut out for you.

AS far as the block deteriorating. I have seen it on several occasions myself. I do find it more with older Cinderblocks then with concrete but I do find it none the less.
I agreee with Richard. Personal experiance here as well.
Where the damage appears to be the worse it when the water proofing contractors drill out holes at the base of the blocks to allow the water to drain into the new interior drainage system. This then creates little rivers of water flowing through the blocks thus wearing down the material. It gets worse with age as the water eats away the material. I also find it where the Cinderblocks were used rather then cement blocks. Being in the NJ area we have a host of these blocks installed in our older homes.

Rikky -

Home Care brings up a good point about a leak under the slab. A good exterior waterproofing system would not help you unless water could flow under the footings to an exterior drain tile.

On of the problems with exterior systems is that basement excavation and utility installation is not always what you think. Often, when excavating the interiod of the basement is disturbed or over-excavated. This creates an area for water to collect. Componding this is the ramp that is often dug for basement construction access and the deep utility trenches excavation can collect and funnel water into the interior. This water can exist without notice, but can rise with a storm creating enough pressure for water to leak in at joints, cracks and holes.

Usually, it is not practical to try to guess where the exterior source is and how to stop the water from entering and collecting, so people go with a interior drain tile at or below the footing level to collect and remove the water before it builds up enough to leak in. - I am not referiing to one of those "toy" plastic systems that sit at or on the floor or the silly, non-code (now) trenches around the edge of the slab.

The interior tile can be a DIY job if you are ambitious and have some help. I did it on my 650 sf basement with over 3 weekends with the help of my 12 year old and some buddies to carry out the soil and concrete and carry in the rock. The only complaint was that they had to find a new basement for their balsa raft races suring a rainy day.