We are having a daylight basement constucted for our production built home. The lot is sloped. The basement walls range from 9 feet in the front of the home to about 3 feet in the rear. The builder had applied waterproofing to the exterior and poured the concrete floor. The poured concrete walls cured for about 3 weeks and the weather has been dry and sunny with temperatures between 70-80. The builder has backfilled around the foundation and now there is a diagonal crack at the bottom corner of one of the side walls (9 feet). The crack appears to extend all the way through the wall. The floor joists for the first floor have not been placed yet. From what I have read-this should be done prior to backfilling to provide additional stability to the walls. What is the best way (structurally) to resolve this issue with our builder and for the integrity of our home in the future?
vivian
Posts: 2 | Location: indiana | Registered: 22 July 2007
Have the builder excavate outside the wall where the crack is, and ask him to repair the crack with hydraulic cement and apply membrane waterproofing over the crack.
Did he dampproof the walls before backfilling? If so, did he apply it with spray or brush? The spray method is usually applied much too thinly.
Did he backfill with gravel against the walls, or did he simply use the excavated material to backfill?
Whatever you do, do not accept a repair done from the inside.
Architect (NY) and Home Designer (PA)
Posts: 2545 | Location: Tobyhanna, PA | Registered: 24 October 2005
Richard is correct. Our home is almost 2 now and we experienced similar cracking. We've seen small amounts of water push through the cracks and appear damp on the inside. Our builder was not receptive to doing work from the outside, but in the back of my mind, I have a feeling that we'll be doing it in the next few years ourselves if we ever see water again. We had epoxy injections done, but the cracks have shown signs of recracking because they were so thin to begin with. We went the epoxy route because the alternative was to apply a dry-lock type sealer on the inside... WRONG! Whatever you do, don't let them get away with that.
Thanks Richard, They did damp proof the outside of the walls prior to backfilling. I cannot say if it was sprayed or painted on since I did not actually see it during the process. Is there a way to tell if it is sprayed or painted just by looking at it? I believe they did pour gravel prior to the backfill of soil because we can see gravel in some areas. My husband has been in contact with the construction manager today and we should be meeting him at the homesite later this week to look at the crack. I am attempting to be informed prior to this meeting to avoid difficulties long term as JBuzz seems to be experiencing-we would like to convert the basement to (dry) living space in the next couple of years. Regards- VivianP
vivian
Posts: 2 | Location: indiana | Registered: 22 July 2007
backfilling with 1-2' of gravel and/or some-all of same soil that was excavated is NOT backfilling with most-all gravel, the more the better.
1-2' of gravel over footing and drain tiles still leaves 4-6' of soil against a wall, if its not sand the soil will expand `n contract in coming months,years...more pressure. And often they backfill w/lots of other junk including bricks,blocks,wood,pieces of concrete etc, not good.
"...We have had to watch as CONTINUED structural movement and further concrete shrinkage have RE-opened cracks to leaks."
"Injection alone cannot provide a lasting solution as cracks get LARGER and SOIL expansion and contraction cause the foundation to shift and settle"
At least this Inside co makes one aware of some facts.
Companies who only-most always do a drain tile or baseboard system and/or, injections will push their-system-of-choice on HO`s because, its all they do and/or, all they prefer to do, its where THEY make the MOST Money.(some only do injections like The Crack team)
And so, when they give estiamtes, their entire 'spiel' is to make THEIR system of choice SOUND like its the best, and most will also crap on Exterior Waterproofing, they`ll tell ya all kinds of garbage,lies,misinformation,FALSE CLAIMS.
WHY??? Because they don`t do Exterior waterproofing and/or don`t want to do it, now thats the DARN truth! They don`t have necessary labor/people, who can HANDLE the HARD labor! And/or, they are Not INSURED for exterior/outside full excavations!
For instance, these folks apparently ONLY-most always do Interior Baseboard method, so their sales-presentation will be how great it is,how cheap it is, how its supposedly the best thing for you etc etc
scroll down to watch VIDEO. Not saying they won`t give info on exterior waterpf`g etc but since they only-most always install baseboard system then thats what they`ll try focus' you on.
How about this one, they install Inside systems so, what will they tell about Exterior water`g? And how will they PHRASE it? And are they being HONEST and COMPETENT in what is stated? Read Q)Is it necessary to excavate the outside of my home?
THEY say "We strongly recommend against it. More than likely waterproofing measures were taken when the home was built, but have failed.Outside excavation repair does not address hydrostatic water enveloping the foundation or water trapped within bsmt wall.It is extremely expensive, time consuming,and destructive to landscaping......"
This is blllcht. 1) Most basements are NOT 'waterproofed' when built.2) Outside repair when backfilling with peastone/gravel does address hydrostatic water/pressure because the gravel does not allow the otherwise-soil that WAS there against the wall to expand `n contract, plus outside excavation removes any roots that may also cause a wall to crack,bow.
3)extremely expensive? lolol...says WHO, THEM and Other inside companies?? more nonsense, most often exterior waterpf`g is LESS expensive. Doing job right now where 2 inside co`s wanted 17,000 and 21,000 to install their inside waterdiverting system and we`re doing it the rightway, outside for $7,500!!!!!!
4) Time consuming? Most outside jobs get done in 1 day, bigger jobs will take 2,3 or 4 days versus an inside system that takes 2,3,4 days lol.
Destructive? Again, says WHO? Yes, sometimes a bush or 2 and/or some flowers have to be removed-most often replaced., such a terrible thing to sacrifice to STOP the water from entering/take soil pressure `n roots off the wall.
For pete sake, sometimes walls can crack, then leak, and/or bow in from footings that are leaning against the outside of a wall or, concrete that ninny poured against the wall. Sometimes they pour right over existing 4-6" slabs, this creates MORE weight, more pressure against a wall, it could crack a wall. Some inside co`s rather leave that weight/pressure against the wall????? hahahahahahahaa!
Drive side/patio, need about 18-22 inches so, an 'spron/strip' is neatly cut. Don`t have to remove entire slabs,entire driveways! That is unless THEY are going to use equipment,backhoe to dig it! We hand dig.
Shall i get into the BBB customer complaints?
BUILDER`s EITHER, don`t KNOW or, don`t care, most opt to do as little as possible and so, they`ll inject or play around on inside long enough to get past their bs warranty period.
Homeowners has leaking basement walls, claims builder 'tried to use CAULK' to stop water from seeping through the plaster, but the ten time repair hasn`t worked. Other-homes have similar problems, the city signed off/okayed this crap.
When some builders say they made 'repairs' they and tried to make HO happy it doesn`t mean shtt, doesn`t mean they made the RIGHT repair. Injections or caulking cracks isn`t the right,best repair.
And watch out for types too....lady gave $10,000 check for waterproofing, guy is gone! Folks, you shouldn`t have to give ANY Waterproofing co. $1 up front! http://www.wkyc.com/news/news_fullstory.asp?id=40986
'Backfill dirt that is placed against the foundation wall CAUSES a Lateral or Sideways movement........Lateral pressure can also be CAUSED by heavy machinery that places the dirt against against the walls. An inexperienced heavy equipment operator can CRACK a NEW foundation WALL by PUSHING dirt into the void space AGAINST the wall instead of gently dropping it in from above' Or an opertor who is in a hurry, doesn`t give a crap etc.
Read next para too.
And then...'keep in mind that WET SOIL is vert Heavy. It is NOT uncommon for this material to WEIGH nearly 100 pounds per cubic ft......tens of thousands of pounds'
One HO had hairline vertical crack that did-leak BUT crack has not widened, least since they`ve been there pics 17,19..also had water coming in through void/space in pic 18
Other HO had water entering through crack and other openings and crack DID WIDEN pic`s 2,4
To answer Vivian's question, sprayed-on dampproofing usually looks like a heavy coat of black paint, with no measurable thickness. Brush-applied dampproofing, especially if 2 coats are used, can be one eighth to one quarter of an inch thick...you will see this thickness by eye. Almost no one applies dampproofing heavily enough these days...the spray method just doesn't do it in most cases, not because it can't, but because the operator simply does not understand dampproofing and does not apply a sufficient thickness, and no one applies it by brush any more.
Think about it...if it's thin enough to pass through a spray nozzle, how heavy could it be?
Architect (NY) and Home Designer (PA)
Posts: 2545 | Location: Tobyhanna, PA | Registered: 24 October 2005
Full disclosure, I work for a waterproofing material manufacturer. It is possible to repair the crack from the inside and stop water from entering the basement. WE make a kit for pros and DIYer. It can be found here; basement crack repair kit
It is also possible to do a structural repair from the inside as well.
Here is a company (not the one I work for) that has the materials to do the job. fortress
On top of that, many injectable epoxies don't do well in narrow hairline cracks. The resin doesn't always penetrate the width of the wall. Plus, like Richard eluded to, if there is continued movement, you might end up with a new crack right next to your epoxied crack.
Most oif the suggestions are "after-the-fact" patches and repairs that have varying degrees of performance.
The wall should have been braced and/or had the blocked joists and subfloor installed before backfilling.
Normally, basement walls are not designed as free-standing retaining walls. Your wall probably cracked AND moved during backfilling.
A floor system is usually required to provide support for basement walls. - That is one of the reasons for anchor bolts and blocking between the first several joist if they are not bearing on the basement wall.
****
Posts: 154 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: 28 July 2007
Originally posted by Richard Hetzel: Have the builder excavate outside the wall where the crack is, and ask him to repair the crack with hydraulic cement and apply membrane waterproofing over the crack.
Did he dampproof the walls before backfilling? If so, did he apply it with spray or brush? The spray method is usually applied much too thinly.
Did he backfill with gravel against the walls, or did he simply use the excavated material to backfill?
Whatever you do, do not accept a repair done from the inside.
Richard (or anyone), I have a similar issue. I'd like to repair this right the first time so I was wondering if there is somewhere you can point me that will tell me how to do this. Thanks, Brian
Browse through the many posts by LicensedWaterproofer and LicensedWaterproofR (same person) and you will find many photographic examples and the instructions for doing the job right, by a man who has been waterproofing basements without complaints for over 30 years. It will take some time, because his posts are long and contain many third-party links to back up what he says, but they are also quite entertaining.
I will say that if yoour footings are more than three or four feet below grade, it may not be a job for a homeowner. The risks of cave-ins in deeper excavations are high, and those are best left to professionals who can read soil characteristics and be able to somewhat predict soil behavior, and take precautionary measures when indicated.
Architect (NY) and Home Designer (PA)
Posts: 2545 | Location: Tobyhanna, PA | Registered: 24 October 2005
It is perfectly ok to do injections from the interior IF done right and for the right situations. First of all, epoxies are bonding agents, not good for wet or leaking cracks because they won't bond inside of the crack. Urethanes work better because they actually use water to expand and fill the cracks. If the crack has never leaked, then it may be a good weld and actually makes the concrete stronger at that particular break than when originally poured.
NOW - if a crack in widening, then there is likely a settlement issue, which means no injection, water control system, exterior coating or membrane are the correct fixes right away. In some cases, Carbon Fiber polymers can resist shifting and separation of foundation walls where cracked, other times you will need some sort of foundation repair.
Again, all of this depends on why the crack is re-opening. We inject a lot of wall cracks and they work, if that is what is needed for natural cracking or stress fractures around beam pockets and window wells. We are called to look at leaking cracks like these and realize that the real issue is not the leaking fracture but what is causing the crack and movements and therefore take a different approach to fix the true issue.
Never ever let anyone tell you that an injection, especially urethane, is a structural repair. If a crack continues to open after injection, then the urethane will not move with it and the epoxy will either break at that point or cause another break nearby. Most of our injections are completed with a bi-drectional carbon fiber mesh over the fracture that prevents movement at that point. This is an engineered application, and is amazingly inexpensive, low invasion, and completely effective.
Posts: 26 | Location: Midwest | Registered: 31 May 2008
Originally posted by watergeek: It is perfectly ok to do injections from the interior IF done right and for the right situations. First of all, epoxies are bonding agents, not good for wet or leaking cracks because they won't bond inside of the crack. Urethanes work better because they actually use water to expand and fill the cracks. If the crack has never leaked, then it may be a good weld and actually makes the concrete stronger at that particular break than when originally poured.
NOW - if a crack in widening, then there is likely a settlement issue, which means no injection, water control system, exterior coating or membrane are the correct fixes right away. In some cases, Carbon Fiber polymers can resist shifting and separation of foundation walls where cracked, other times you will need some sort of foundation repair.
Again, all of this depends on why the crack is re-opening. We inject a lot of wall cracks and they work, if that is what is needed for natural cracking or stress fractures around beam pockets and window wells. We are called to look at leaking cracks like these and realize that the real issue is not the leaking fracture but what is causing the crack and movements and therefore take a different approach to fix the true issue.
Never ever let anyone tell you that an injection, especially urethane, is a structural repair. If a crack continues to open after injection, then the urethane will not move with it and the epoxy will either break at that point or cause another break nearby. Most of our injections are completed with a bi-drectional carbon fiber mesh over the fracture that prevents movement at that point. This is an engineered application, and is amazingly inexpensive, low invasion, and completely effective.
'Simons' 1991 describes DAMAGE caused by expansive soils as probably the least-publicized of natural hazards,but ties with hurricanes for second place among economic loss to buildings. 2.4.3 Foundation Repairs...'our limited experience revealed there is occasional ERRONEOUS Diagnosis and subsequent implementation of an INAPPROPRIATE remdial measure...for example, we observed pilasters that were improperly supported, repaired walls that promoted subsequent settlement,the MISAPPLICATION of CARBON FIBER strips..'
3.2 Lateral Wall Pressure....four sources
3.4.5 Backfill
3.4.11.1 Modeling Results...demonstrate that GRANULAR backfills can REDUCE lateral pressure..
-Applications and LIMITATIONS 'epoxy injection has been successfully used in the repair of cracks in buildings,bridges,dams and other types of concrete structures. HOWEVER, unless the crack is dormant(or the CAUSE of cracking is REMOVED,thereby making the crack dormant),it will PROBABLY RECUR, possibly somewhere else in the structure...'
http://www.irbdirekt.de/daten/iconda/06089010294.pdf 'Epoxy injection repairs of alive cracks in concrete are prone to deterioration by fatigue resulting from the expansion/contraction of concrete.Also,the fatigue resistance of epoxy resin can decrease over time....'
They also will not hold up when crack-wall is being pushed inward due to lateral soil pressure,sometimes roots or porch footings or concrete slabs which all push laterally against walls.
Supposed only-options, they say the first is a poly-injection....they say it gives a COMPLETE SEAL,inside-out. Then they say..'BUT,we have found that over time the urethane SHRINKS and the crack LEAKS again'
Well duh, its not much of an option then. And how come they do NOT say ANYTHING about waterproofing crack from EXTERIOR? Well, some of us know exactly why.
Ok, then they go on and say 2nd option is their NEW breakthrough crack repair method, they say it eliminates messy,UNRELIABLE EPOXY or URETHANE INJECTIONS. Supposedly...its permanent and works every time. Hmmmm
Well, they said the 1st option gives a complete seal inside-out too. And this 2nd option is NEW, they haven`t tried it over 10-20 years, pretty misleading to say its permanent.
I actually agree with this. A crack injection should never be constituted as a permanent repair. Yes, some urethanes shrink in the absense of water, and water is a catalyst for urethane expansion. For example, I have a container on my desk that I shot Hydrophilic urethane into with about 4 oz of water. The Hydrophilic expanded and almost filled about half of this container, which is about the size of a large cottage cheese container. Over the course of a week or so with no new water, it reduced to about the size of a hockey puck. Every now and then I will add more water and within about 24 hours it will expand again.
Hydrophobic urethanes, on the other hand, do not shrink and expand in that way. Once they have their full chemical reaction (about 30 sec), they retain the mass of the area they are shot in to. However, urethanes do not permanently apply themselves permanently to any surface, which is why wall movement will cause the crack to re-open and leak again.
Injections do not work everytime and should not be used as a one-size-fits-all type of repair. Anything misapplied will not work as it is intended to do, which is the reference and link to carbon fiber provided by LW. But, when set in the right application and total scope of work, they are excellent and effective products. In fact, the CF products I use were recently tested by the Smash Lab team on the Discovery Channel... I recommend you watch it and form your own opinion after that.
The key to anything working AS IT IS DESIGNED TO DO is using it for the proper scenarios.
Posts: 26 | Location: Midwest | Registered: 31 May 2008
