I am doing a complete remodel of my 1930's home.
I have an archway/wall that divides the dining room/living room and I'm replacing this archway/wall with a single LVL spanning the width of the rooms, making them one room.

First, I was very surprised to find the existing 2"x12"x14' header supported only by a 2"x4" post on either end...which explains the vibration in the rooms when doors are shut..amazing that it was supported for that long!
This was also supporting the second level of my home, including the roof!

I am installing a 7"x12"x18' LVL to replace the header/wall. It will be supported by a 6"x8" wooden post/column on either end, with all the appropriate Simpson hardware/brackets, this has all been engineered and a City approved permit to do the work.

I have already installed temporary supporting walls on either side of the existing header, and the temp. walls run the complete length of the ceiling that the new, larger/longer header will be installed into.

My plan is to remove the existing header, then using beam lifts at either end of the new header, lift it to the exact position I would like to install it (over the existing ceiling/floor joists), then run a mark along the length of the new LVL header onto the existing floor/ceiling joists, which will be about 1/8" wider on each side of the header (total 1/4" both sides)to allow space for the header to fit into the joists and up against the floor.
I plan to use a 16" beam saw to cut the 8" floor/celing joists.
I will then lift and fit the LVL header in between the cut joists and attach joist hangers and install the columns on either end.

I would like suggestions that could make this go better, or maybe my plan could use changes?

Any help would be appreciated..

Rick

Your plan is fine, as was the support of the existing header. Don't expect the vibrations to be cured by the installation of the new header, because they likely had nothing to do with the old one.

Thank you for your comments.

But, I don't see how a 2"x12"x14' header, which runs down the middle of the house, supporting the upper floor and roof above the upper floor (stemwalled living area directly above..stemwall has heavy roof load, as plaster and sheet rock was cracked the lenth of the ceiling on both sides of the house)
I really can't see how only (1) 2"x4" post on each side of this header can be "fine"?
The only thing that was keeping them from bowing and collapsing was the sheetrock and plaster ontop..I had to hurridly support the joists after removing the sheetrock/plaster, as it was very, very unstable...

Rick

Over a foot of snow in a single day during Winter months is not uncommon here... I forgot to add that information to the roof load comment..

Rick

I repeat. The vibrations very likely had nothing to do with the support of the header.

Yes, in modern construction, we require more support for headers, but in older buildings, such framing was, if not typical, then fairly common, and I've seen worse. But what has a header to do with vibrations when closing a door?

The door is an exterior door that is directly beside the header. The door frame directly ties to the header.
The ceiling joists pass over the header, not mounted to either side of the header like I will be doing with the replacement.

Rick

How far do your 2x8 floor joists span?

If the header is above an exterior door how do the joists run over top of it? Framing into, instead of continuously over the header will take load off of the header. It will also reduce the mass associated with the header.

Vibrations are a tricky animal. The supporting 2x4 likely had little to do with vibration problems. I can see the 2x12 being a bit of an issue. The deflection of this beams and its associated natural frequency plays into the natural frequency of the floor system. The more mass, the lower the frequency, the frequency also goes down with decreased stiffness. Therefore, taking mass off of the header (framing the joist into it instead of running it continuous over top) and increasing the flexural stiffness (the new beam) should improve the vibration characteristics of the floor.

With all of that said, however, the joists themselves may be so flexible that they are the largest contributor to your vibration issues.

Finally, I don't believe that your vibration issues change with the closing of the door. Maybe that's when you notice it because the door rattles or something, but that should have no effect on the vibration characteristics of the floor system.

Single LVL for that long a span? I would have doubled it up.
2 X 8 floor joist are way undersized for a span more then 10'.
We just redid an opening that someone had just cut out a supporting wall and used 2, 2x6's for a header then we sistered all the floor joist above with 1-3/4 X 9 LVL's that got through bolted together. Now there's 0 deflection and the 1-1/2 sag in the ceiling is gone.
Instead of a single thick jack I would just stacked 2X's, far less likly to twist bow or crack.

I'm not so sure you have 0 deflection. I could put in a W21 steel beam with no load whatsoever on it and it will deflect. All materials deform, it's just a matter of how much. It's all a matter of stiffness - which is a function of E & I.

That being said, deflection, has very little to do with a dynamic issue such as vibrations. A stiffer floor (one that deflects less) is typically better than a one that deflects a lot, but it's the stiffness that is the driver, not the deflection. There's so much more that goes into it, the real service mass of the floor, the actual stiffness of the floor system (not just the joists or headers), the forcing function (the actual dynamic load), the amount of damping in the system (typically good in residential conditions with full height partitions), and on, and on.

All beams should be supported by at least a 4x4. I've seen many supported by jack & king stud setups, but I prefer more contact area.

The LVL I am using is sized by an engineer for it's purpose. It is a Versa Lam, 12" deep x 7" wide. The LVL itself will be 18', but the span will only be 17', which it will safely support. I have had an engineer calculate the size and the City Engineer verified it.
The existing 8"x 11' ceiling joists that will be integrated into the LVL are undersized, and every other joist is going to be doubled up.


Rick

quote:

Originally posted by joecaption:
Single LVL for that long a span? I would have doubled it up.
2 X 8 floor joist are way undersized for a span more then 10'.
We just redid an opening that someone had just cut out a supporting wall and used 2, 2x6's for a header then we sistered all the floor joist above with 1-3/4 X 9 LVL's that got through bolted together. Now there's 0 deflection and the 1-1/2 sag in the ceiling is gone.
Instead of a single thick jack I would just stacked 2X's, far less likly to twist bow or crack.

There is no point in doubling up every OTHER joist. They are either ALL undersized, so therefore ALL of them should be doubled. or just forget it and save yourself a lot of trouble. Doubling every OTHER joist does nothing to strengthen the undoubled joists in between.

I agree with Richard, doubling every other joist doesn't make much sense. If there is a problem, why not double them all? If no problem, why double any? Either way, doubling half of them is not an efficient use of time, material, or money.

Thank you for the guidance.. I will double up every joist..
Glad I mentioned it.


Again, thanks for all the help!


Rick