I've read the other threads about framing basement walls, but I didn't find what I am looking for yet...

I am looking at having what I will call an "semi-finished storage area" in my basement, and I do not wish to pull a permit...
I run a dehumidifier in the summer as well as our forced air AC., so I do not have a big humidity problem.
First of all, I am not placing any wall against the concrete wall. The only part that will touch is the 4" edge in a "T" fashion. If a problem develops, I want to see it right away. So, I am only left with "interior" walls. I am planning on using metal studs and will only put drywall on one side with no insulation. The way I have it layed out will close off the area with the furnace/storage etc. but I plan on putting a louvered bifold door on that wall. My questions here are as follows:
1-What does IRC say about leaving the wall un-drywalled on the unfinished storage side?
2-one of the walls will be running along the I-beam, What do I do about any wiring that would drop down from the top of that wall?
3-is it worth the extra money to buy MR type drywall vs. regular paper backed?
4-how stable will the wall be if I leave 3/8" gap at the top and nail/screw across the gap?
5-what kind of firestop/fireblock would I need? If any...?

Thanks in advance

As a company that provides building inspections and performs several insurance evaluations I know as much as you do not want to have a building permit for this project I would suggest that you reconsider. If you are running any electical or plumbing into or through this area and a problem occurs such as an insurance issue claim. You will be denied if the adjuster sees any signs of amature workmanship without proper permits.
As far as your answers, There is nothing stating that you must drywall both sides of the closet. Yes you should use MR drywall its worth the extra expense when you consider what mold removal costs. Do not understand the Gap question and firestops are not required in the wall itself, but if your finishing off a basement area you must firestop the walls to the sills of the basement.

I don't underatnd why you are concerned about what the Codes require if you are not willing to pull a permit and have the alterations properly inspected.

But anyhow....

First, your basement walls will be required to be insulated according to the IRC. Any space that is 'conditioned' (heated or cooled) either by active mechanical means or by residual energy loss via ducts, pipes, etc...must be insulated...From what you have decribed, that means all the exterior walls of your basement as well as the mechancial closet. You'll need a vapor retarder on the warm-in-winter side of any wall that is part of the thermal envelope.

Second, since all these partitions will be wired, they must also be drywalled on both sides to act as a firestop. Any joist spaces above the top plates must be fireblocked. Ends of partitions not in contact with the foundation must be blocked or dense packed with unfaced fiberglass insulation as a firestop.

MR drywall is a waste of money here unless your basement is really, really damp.

Not pulling permit= not having to put in egress ($3500 for something that is beyond my willingness to perform, otherwise it would only cost me parts)
Not pulling permit= no tax increases
Being concerned about codes= IF I so decide in the future (if I were to sell the house), I can put in the egress, get permits approved, count the 800 sqft as living space, and get more out of my investment, but let the next homeowner deal with the tax increase.

My township, as I have found out, uses the 2003 Michigan codes, so if anyone knows Michigan vs other...

No plumbing will be done.
There were several electrical outlets on the concrete walls installed when the house was built.

GAP= space between the top of wall and the floor joists above, to allow for slab heave/shift. How stable will the wall be if it isn't tightly snugged to the floor joists or I'beams above?

I am not making the "enhanced w/ drywall" area totally closed from the poured walls (leaving one poured wall exposed to the enhanced area), and there is heating ducts going to ALL parts of the basement- that was done when house was built. All doors will be louvered. I don't think I should have to use any insulation- wouldn't do any good.

As far as putting drywall on both sides for firestop... what is the big difference between having some romex run thru the wall studs on a 1-side open wall and having romex run thru floor joists as all basements have? If I use metal studs and I use Paperless DensArmor Plus Interior Wallboard (gerogia pacific), Is there anything to burn? Will the glass mat burn?

Not looking to spend a billion dollars on something that will get used a few hours a month. Just want enough protection for the future against any known codes for purpose I mention above... I just need to understand what's needed at a minimum.

Thanks for your responses so far.

You're just one of these jokers who's playing games and is only concerend about himself and his pocketbook.

Pity the poor individual that buys this hosue later.

No more help from me.

Michigan Code statewide is the IRC 2003...which you willingly choose to circumvent.

No sympathy for scofflaws when it comes to safety violations...

Have to agree with Homebild. I recently tore out an entire basemetn that was 10 years old that the owner did themselves. They also did it quite nicely. But after the fire inspector visited the house and saw that it did not comply with the current codes they dug deeper. My company ended pulling out the entire basement, after the owner paid a hefty fine. They took a large loss on the home as they sold it with a finished basement. If your just putting in a small storage area or even a small family room. Get the permits. It will save you a lot later.

Fish-man: DIY it and pull permits.Also You can probably put in a egress window with window well for less than 3500.00,that way you'll save money in the short and long run!I know how You feel about the permits[Mi inspector horrer stories],but getting the permits will save You money! Respectfully Frank O'Pinion

I do reports on basement after basement that were finished without a permit, and they cause people huge headaches and hundreds and sometimes thousands of dollars when they try to sell the house. There is only one right way. Do it right and get a permit.

I am new to this forum but have a question about finishing a basement, I have the blanket insulaton on all basement walls with vapor barriar.

Should this be removed prior to putting up new studs and insulation or will this improve the insulation factor by leaving it on the walls. I am planning on pulling permits but need to understand if this will help or hinder my build out. Thanks for any replies

We need more info before we can answer. What state are you in? Also what kind of insulation are you thinking of leaving in place? How old is the home? Is there any water issues with the basement such as evidence of any white powder on the walls near the floor water stains or leaks? How much of the basement is below grade? To what extent are you planning to finish it, What does the township require? They may have special requirements based on what your going to do with it. If you provide additional information you will get some very helpfull advice from lots of folks.

I think you guys were a little rough lol. point out what he NEEDS to do to make it meet code. As far as permits go, at least in my township in pa, they are 90 percent for revenue, 10 percent for safety etc. for example...only in my township is a pool considered nonpermable surface area. The permits here are also a percentage of the cost of the job. as the avg finished basement goes for 60,000, the permits alone run several thousand and the township doesnt provide the inspections...you have to hire an independent underwriter to inspect it. My solution...build the basement myself to code, hire the underwriter to do the inspection WITHOUT the permit to verify i did everything right, and save about 45,000 on the basement, 4,000 on permits, and 5,000...yes 5,000 on increased property taxes per year.

Wait until you have an insurance claim in the basement. The insurance companies will check that all the permits have been issued. If not, your out of luck on the claim. I have first hand knowlage of this as i do a lot of insurance claim work with my company. Also if your taxes go up that high you were undervalued from the beginning. You should check your homeowners policy to be sure your properly covered as home values have gone up quite a bit across the country.

I agree with the posters who assertively expressed the correct action to take, so I will address some not-so-directly code related.

quote:

Originally posted by Fish-man:
GAP= space between the top of wall and the floor joists above, to allow for slab heave/shift. How stable will the wall be if it isn't tightly snugged to the floor joists or I'beams above?

:

The US Gypsum Construction Handbook addresses this situation where vertical movement of the structure above is possible. Install a long-leg metal channel, anchored to the bottom of the beam. Install the metal studs (with the required gap), but DO NOT anchor to the top channel. Install gypsum board on both sides of the studs, but DO NOT anchor to the top channel. Place the topmost screw in the stud a safe distance below the bottom edge of the channel leg.

quote:

Is there anything to burn? Will the glass mat burn?

: The electrical insulation and coating will burn.

We were looking to do some basic work in our basement. Is it likely that the following needs permits, etc described? In general what requires a permit?


- Add a "Ceilingmax" drop ceiling
- Do nothing with the walls - leave block
- Relocate a ceiling light box and add switch to current pull chain light

I would really suggest that you stay away from conventional framing and drywall as much as possible. Even if your basement is very dry, Basements sill have very high humidity. Which causes mold, and musty smells. There are a number of new products out there you can use. Like, The Total Basement Solution, Owens Coring, Champion. All these companies have great new products. But if you much use drywall and studs your vapor barrier should go against the wall to protect the studs. This is not necessary to keep the studs dry it is more to keep the walls from wicking humidity into the basement. I also suggest that you get a ventilation system for basements. You can check out our website to see what we use. All though we don’t service your area it will give you an ideal of what you should have. www.thebasementguys.com

If your walls will be "wicking humidity into the basement", it means that your walls are either not properly dampproofed, or not waterproofed, and you should not finish your basement until that problem has been dealt with. Placing a vapor retarder on the wall before framing a finished wall in front of it is incorrect, because moisture will condense behind the framed wall on the vapor retarder and create the very condition you were trying to guard against. The writer of this suggestion demonstrates his complete ignorance of the fundamentals of vapor retarder placement.

It is impossible to seal a basement wall from the inside. The water is coming from the outside. I repeat. The water is coming from the outside. If the water (or moisture, which is water) gets into the basement wall, it is inside the house where you don't want it to be!, and your troubles will never end. If dampness or water is a problem now in your basement, it will always be a problem. Do not finish your basement until the water is dealt with.

If your basement is in fact properly dampproofed or waterproofed (they are two different things), then ordinary heating and air conditioning will be sufficient, and no special "basement ventilation system" will be necessary. Beware of methods that are nothing but admissions of defeat and statements of surrender to the water. Look instead for methods which ensure that water stays outside the house where it belongs.

Hey Richy,

What do you against BG? This never stops.

I have nothing against anyone who takes the time and makes the effort to fully explain in clear simple language whatever solution to a problem posted here that they are proposing.

By the same token, I have no use for those who post links and run without a word of explanation, who cast aspersions on those who make an honest effort to help people here, who claim that certification by an organization that has way more than its share of shady members is a credential, and whose business practices are deceptive if not downright dishonest.

I leave it to you and to all the other readers of this forum to determine for yourselves which is which.

in regaurds to the origonal post, even if you do everything to code now, if you do not get permits and inspections now in 5 years when you go to see your house and get your permits if anything has changed in your citys code between now and then you will be expected to comply with the newer code and not the 2003 IRC. so even if you do everything right now, in 5 years they may change residental code to not allow metal studs in basements anymore and now you have to rip everything out anyways, but if you get your permits now and get your inspections everything will be grandfathered in when you sell.

in Georgia, no daylight in the basement = no increase in value or usable SF. At least that is the way lenders treat it.

Disclosure forms when selling a property ask specifically if you have done work w/out a permit. Don't lie on those, you may be sued by the buyer.

If your basement is damp, don't finish it with anything that might hold moisture thus mold. Metal studs will rust, aluminum will oxidize. Carpet will mildew. A toxic mold attorney will track you down. The way litigation is headed, finished basements will be a thing of the past in few years.

AS a GC/Builder, any General Liability insurance policy excludes toxic mold coverage. we take great pains to install damproofing and drainage systems correctly on foundations that will not settle because the footings are done right so there is no settling and cracked walls, but the compounds used to keep subterranean concrete protected will degrade over time.

Even the best practices will only guarantee that your walls are protected for 30 years. After that time, the concrete will act as a sponge and your basement will get wet. No exceptions. In 50 years all basements will leak, unless you live in the desert.

Sure it's cheap space now, but it could get very expensive.