Ok, we built basically a 30x50 foot house/garage two story last year. The entire home is 2x6 studs on 16 centers. I didn't want any posts in the garage so we used floor trusses to get rid of the posts. They are 24" high and spaced at 19.2". The entire first floor is garage with three 12'x9' garage doors on the one 50' wall. The entire second floor is house. We have a simple truss design, with roof trusses at 24' on center spanning the 30' of course. Problem is this!! On the garage door headers my contractor used three 2x12x13' sandwiched on each header. They are not holding and currently sagging 1/2 inch by rough tape measuring the trimmed opening. What should I use to span the opening now. I found out that 4ply lvl is supposed to hold it. I also have access to a w10x22 I beam as well. But I haven't looked in my books to see how it is rated. Please help with suggestions for how to go about repairing this. I am hoping to have the contractor do the labor and I buy the material. Thanks Joe

What you need is a qualified design professional who will examine the building and do the required calculations and come up with the kind of header you need. What you have there are enormous floor and roof loads coming down on the header, and dimension lumber just isn't going to cut it, as you have found out. I doubt that LVLs will do it either, unless they are very deep and very wide. You're probably looking at steel. Have someone who knows what he or she is doing do the calculations and advise you.

Your builder should not have assumed that these members would work. Call him back and tell him to come and make it right. He should be the one figuring out the right size header, not you. He's the one who dropped the ball on this, he should pay the entire bill. Nothing here is your fault.

Don't you have a code and inspector to protect you from yourself and the contractor?

That is definitely a bad structural situation that will only get worse as the wood deflects and creep more. A good structural design inludes strength AND deflection since being strong is not always enough if you want things to work and look good.

Thanks Guys for your input. Yes this was inspected and passed. I kinof brainstormed the general idea of the house. The contractor is very small, just father, son and one employee. He dosn't use a design professional usually. Obviousley this is why I am in this situation now. I am a mechancial engineer by education, not civil. I assumed at the time he knew what he was doing. Now, I have called him and he says he will come over and take a look and "dosn't know why those wouldn't be holding" After calling some LVL manufactures the total load looks to be about 9500lbs. per header. Thanks for the replies, is there any liability to be passed to the inspector? I am not looking to sue anyone. I just want my house fixed. Any suggestions would be great. Joe

Inspectors generally have immunity, and are not responsible for structural design anyway. They get something like ten minutes per job to do their inspections, and in that time, can only check for basic code compliance issues. Probably less than 10% of them would even have a clue about how to design a header.

It's another lesson in money saved by not using a qualified design professional costing many times what their design fee would have been. When will people learn?

By the way, the load per header, depending on the span of the header, is well over 10,000 pounds, based on what you said about the building.

Richard,

Thanks for the reply. I didn't opt for a designer due to how simple the structure is. I do agree that had I hired one, this issue most likely would not have happened. By the way, I recieved the loading from two independant LVL manufactures after telling them the same info I posted. I don't know were the difference in what you have arrived at could come from. I believe from memory, they came up with 4800 lbs dead and max combined just under 10000. This is spanning a 12' opening, with overall span 13'. Joe

If your garage is 30 feet deep, those headers are taking 15 feet of both floor load at 50 pounds per square foot total, and roof load of at least 40 pounds per square foot, plus attic load of 30 pounds per square foot. That's a total of 120 pounds per square foot times 15, which is 1800 pounds per linear foot on the header, which spans 12 feet. Therefore the total load on the header is 21,600 pounds!! See why you need a qualified designer? If you listened to the LVL manufacturers, you"d now go to the trouble and expense of removing the headers and installing LVL headers, and then you'd be writing to us that they are STILL sagging!

Again thanks for the reply,

I follow your calcs. Looks as though steel is the way to go. Talked to the contractor last night on the phone will be over sometime?!
Why aren't the LVL manufacture's accurate in there calcs? Just trying to sell product? What would you guys expect a designer to charge for the redesign now? Thanks Joe

Well, the calculation takes about three minutes, and the selection of the header another two minutes, and maybe the designer would have to draw a small sketch for some reason. I don't want to quote prices for other professionals, but that should give you a fair idea of what I would charge...plus maybe an hour to drive out to the site and see the building first hand. I don't believe in overcharging people in your position...it makes no business sense. All it will get you besides the money is a bad name. Maybe a bigger office with a lot of overhead might charge more, but I feel that if I help someone and don't gouge them, I'll have another person out there saying good things about me, and sooner or later that will produce more income for me. Good luck...ask around for someone reasonable.

Richard,

I dug out my old Applied Static and Strength of Mat. book today. Ran the numbers. On the Existing headers I come up with max load of 5,889 lbs for the stack of three 2x12x13'. Obviousley using your loading from the post I have about 25% of what I should. I then your load against a W10x22 Steel I beam, and came up with Allowable span of 14.36 ft. on the bending moment and 39ft on the Shear moment. Looks like it should hold. I am still going to run the max Deflection on it at midpoint. I am asking you if this sounds correct. It has been about 7 years since I have ran these type of calcs. Thanks Joe

If your roof is framed with trusses, you might eliminate the attic load, provided you then never store stuff on the trusses, that would reduce your total load somewhat...maybe by 20 or 25%. The W10x22 sounds a little like overkill.

For a header which will not be braced laterally by a floor or roof, you need to reduce the allowable stress to 22,000 psi for A36 steel. If you divide your bending moment by the allowable stress, you get the section modulus that's required, and that's how you would select your beam. W10 makes sense to fit in where the existing header is with minimum alteration, It's available in weights down to W10x12.

Your deflection should be limited to 1/360th of the span of the header.

Thanks for all your help. I am still hassleing with the contractor. I asked my home owner insurance agent for any help. His thinks that in indiana the home is required to be warrantied by the builder. I looked ut up online and it appears he is correct. However from what I understand this is for a new complete home. In my case I hired the contractor to build the house "shell it" with framing, windows, siding and roof. I did all the rest of the work. Anyone know if the contractor is still held to this warranty in my case?? I have offered to pay materials, and the contractor still says "I can't eat that" on the labor. Please advise what you would do. I am thinking I should report him to the county inspectors? I am beside myself and just want the home fixed. If any of you know any good honest contractors in NorthEast Indiana please let me know. Thanks in advance, Joe Hartman

I'm not sure about Indiana, but we have to provide a 10 year warranty on any structural work we do. If he is the one who built the original house then he should be liable. If he tells you that he can't eat the labor, tell him to do it himself on a weekend. I understand that he is a small operation but he has to take responsibility for his work. If all else fails, I would tell him that you will go as far as to get a qualified structural engineer to size the beam and a qualified contractor to install it, then have a lawyer deliver the invoice to him.

I hope it dosn't come to legal action. I really don't believe in that. I really am shocked this contractor is not standing behind this issue. I could see a huge 20k dollar repair or something begging this type of reaction. But in this case he says it would take him 3 or 4 days labor to do it. This is NOT major in my book. Thanks for the reply, my insurance agent also called me today and mentioned in Indiana it is a 10 year on the structure. Does it matter that he only shelled the home and didn't deliver it complete to me? Anyone know who enforces the builders warranties? Thanks Joe

No, it doesn't matter if he just shelled the home. The work that he did is the work in question. It may be hairy if you supplied the materials and headers though. But if he sized and supplied the headers then he is liable. I'd ask him about the mandated warranty and tell him you expect him to honor the law. I know you don't believe in legal action but a lot of the time the threat of it is enough to get the situation rectified.

Well, Just an update. Building department has been getting after the contractor. It appears that after being told he was licensed by the county, and then NO he's not, finally he isn't and wasn't at time of construction. Just another log for the fire. Any how met with contractor this AM. His offer is to supply labor only and build a complete interior wall 2x4 construction and have LVL's (which I have to supply the specs on, by the way...) to make up the missing load support. He intends to leave the old headers untouched. My first thought is this will not correct damage already done. Mainly the "wave" accross the second floor floor trusses. This will only bandaid the house so it won't sag farther. What do you think? Also he wants me to pay for all material and in his little offer also says that I the owner had poor design, and specs we not provided to him, and he had no blueprints and that his company is not engineers. I AM PO'Ed. What do you guys think? No I don't even know if he carried Liab. Insurance. Of course I know I made my own hornets nest by trusting the verbal references and not getting Proof of Insurance and licensing. But get this, my father used same contractor 8 months after me, same county, and he again pulled a permit for my father, passed inspects and building department never caught it!! What is your opinion of his fix? I am ready to just get someone else to fix it "right" in my mind and go after the contractor legally. Let me know your opinions. ONE HONKED OFF OWNER!! But I also know alot I brought on myself by not checking this guy out. Joe H

I don't understand where the 2x4 wall will go, or what it would do, or where the LVLs will go or what they would do. I think it's time for some professional help who can be on site and make good recommendations.

Richard,

Hi, well the wall would be built inside the garage, behind and against the existing 2x6 wall. Contractor is proposing this with LVL's to "make up the load" difference. I DO NOT think this will correct the problem. And Yes I have phone calls into contractors ( GOOD ONES ), to come and give me evaluations and estimates. I am currently looking for a home designer / architect to take a look in addition. What a mess....I know...Should have done more homework on the contractor. Will keep you all posted as to what comes next. Joe

The best "fix" would be to jack up whatever has sagged as a result and temporarily brace it, remove the incorrect headers, and install the proper headers.