I would like to remove a 8 foot wall between my dining rm and kitchen to open it up. I am not sure however if it is load bearing. The house is a two story with a finished basement. The kitchen is on the first floor. When I looked in the basement in the ceiling under the wall I want to remove it has 2 2X10's directly under it. Ceiling joist in basement(floor of first floor) run front to back of house. Wall I want to remove is also going the same way. The attic joists are also front to back. I do not know about the ceiling of the first floor(floor of the 2nd floor). One more thing I do know that the wall(2nd floor) directly above the wall I want to remove(first floor) is about the same 8 foot wall in about the same place. I hope I did not confuse anyone as I wanted to provide good info.

Thanks for any assistance.

Your information is pretty good, almost good enough to say that the wall you want to remove IS NOT a load-bearing wall. However, the key word is "almost". Every once in a while, a house throws a curve-ball at us. It would be good to verify that the second-floor joists run the same way as all the others, even if it's a 99% chance that they do, because that 1% could make a big mess.

It's normal good practice to double the joists under non-load-bearing partitions, just to carry the weight of the wall itself. Perhaps, since you will have to patch the ceiling anyway where the wall is removed, you can create a small hole in the ceiling, and feel around with something like a wire coat-hanger, to see if there's a joist or double joist just above the wall. Like I said, it's 99% certain that there is. But, let's go for 100%, OK?

I hate that "almost" part but I do understand . The 2nd floor has an open staircase and the wall on(2nd floor) running the same way above the wall I want to remove is not holding the "main" beam which I can see in the attick. Where the 2 joist that overlap in the attick are over a diff wall more in the center of the 2nd floor.
I was trying to avoid putting a hole in the ceiling because if it is load bearing I will prob not take it down as I do not want a 4x4 or some other post showing. I know I should just call a struc eng. I guess I may have to.
Ty!

You probably don't need a structural engineer. You might check with your local building department...sometimes they have plans for your house on file. You might look for evidence of nails in the ceiling; they will tell you which way the joists are running. Another option is to poke a little hole in a closet ceiling if there's a closet nearby, and probe with the coat hanger there.

Like I said, it's 99% sure it's not a bearing wall. Maybe even 99.8% sure. Is your dining room open to the living room? If so, is there a beam on the ceiling between the two rooms? That would indicate that the joists are running the same way as the others.

I just don't want to be the one who says "go ahead, take the wall down" without seeing it myself, you know?

Yes there is about a 5 foot opening from the dining room into the living room and obviously then there are 2 walls there. It looks as though there is the "main" beams running from L to R on all three ceilings going with the way the roof is pitched which seems to be opposite of at least the 2 places I could see. The double joist under the wall still bugs me. I will call the town to see about the plans. The house was buit in 1989 so I hope they still ahve them. Now once I have them I hope that helps me.

Thanks

The double joist is good framing practice...the second joist supports the weight of the partition itself. It doesn't necessarily mean it's a bearing wall above. In fact, if it were a bearing wall, there probably would be a triple joist there, and possibly of deeper lumber than your floor joists. If you look under other partitions running the same way, if any, you'll probably find double joists there too.

If they have the plans, at the very least there should be little arrows on the plan of each floor, showing the direction of the joists above, with the joist size and spacing written above the arrows. Or else, there might be a cross-section of the house which shows which way the joists are running.

Thanks! HGTV should be paying you.

Would take all the fun out of it!

There is one more thing you may want to consider. Even if the floor trusses between the 1st and 2nd floor are running the same direction and the others and if the wall you want to remove is close to the staircase, then there may be a possibility that the trusses in that area may be running perpendicular to the main truss runs to "frame" out the staircase. We've had the truss designer do this on a few of our houses.

Exactly why I said someone knowledgeable should look at it on site...however, the wall in question is between the kitchen and dining room, so the stairs are obviously elsewhere, and the second floor is most likely not framed with trusses, since the rest of the house is conventionally framed.

Hello I have almost the same problem as Madman.
Same setup only my wall runs across the floor joists with a steel I-Beam thats flows with the wall under the joists, which has a support directly under my project. My rafters run with the joists. I have 15 ft span that is supported by 8 ft. I would like to remove the 8 ft. My thoughts are to use floor jacks to hold the ceiling. remove the wall, place a 2x6 on each end, floor to ceiling. Use 3 2x10's supported by 2 2x6's on each end. My concern is the space between. Will the 6x10 support be sufficient to hold the weight of the roof at half way point or will I need to support the middle as well or would the 2x10's be over kill. The floor I'm not concerned with due to the 12 in I-Beam running the span of the house. Any comments or suggestions would be helpfull. Thanks Chris

If ever there was a situation that cried out for professional expertise, it is this one. The description is one step above incomprehensible, and an experienced person who can see the entire picture should be consulted. No way an answer can be given here.

I agree with Richard. But to sort of answer your question. NO. Anytime you enlarge an opening your creating additional weight transfer to the edges of the new location. With that said even if the 2x6 on the end would work and assuming you sized the new support beam for the span. Will the load be properly supported below that point. Remember the weight of the ceiling, walls, floors and roof? are shared over a distance along the main beam. When opening the space above this area weight is now concentrated in a smaller location or foot print, This could lead to failure of the support beam below. Cutting out walls or opening doors etc takes a understanding of how loads are transfered to the footings within the basement. Even if it looks like nothing moved when done. Give it time, Things will eventually settle and not for the best. Get a professional engineer or designer to figure out the loads and what size beams are needed.

Exactly. What is done in many cases is to convert uniformly distributed load to concentrated load, which means the structure below must be investigated for the ability to carry the concentrated loads which it was not originally designed to do. One may think it is the same weight, but when it becomes a concentrated load, that's a totally different design method, and may result in requiring different characteristics for the beam below.

What is needed is a complete picture of the entire structure, so that load paths may be traced from the origin to the earth. Vital information is easily overlooked by untrained observers.

I've said the same thing as Home Care Club, in different words. And I make the same recommendation.