I'm looking for some advise on framing the interior walls of my basement. The foundation is poured concrete. Should I butt the framing up against the wall or set it back at some distance? There is one existing finished room from the prior homeowner that has it set back with no insulation but a vapor barrier on the back side and finshed drywall on the interior side. I thought I read that this would trap the moisture inside the stud cavity and cause problems. I plan to insulate with kraft faced insulation. Any advise on Ohio building code and best practices will be appreciated.

--Chris seafarmer@hotmail.com

Residential Code for Ohio appears to generally be the 2003 International Residential Code, but it also appears that the State left it up to the local jurisdiction to decide. So call your local code office and take my generalized comments for what they are.

IRC 2003 does not prohibit placing studs in direct contact with the concrete foundation. You can use furring strips fastened to the concrete or framed walls in direct contact with the concrete.

The "issue" here is that if you use lumber and it comes into contact with the concrete, it must be treated or naturally decay resistant lumber.

Since this lumber is more expensive than traditional framing lumber, most will simply place the wall away from the foundation by a few inches so as not to require treated lumber.

Metal studs are permitted and can be placed in direct contact with the concrete.

I prefer to use standard framing lumber kept away from the foundation wall by several inches to avoid having the fiberglass insulation come into direct contact with the concrete.

If your basement is in a potential flood plain, then all basement lumber used must be treated lumber or metal studs.

Remember whatever your method, that you must fireblock the walls every 10 feet horizonatlly behind a framed wall that is not in contact with the concrete, and that fireblocking is necessary above the top plate in joist spaces.

Insulation should be installed to depths recommended for you location. There are different insulating methods and types.

IRC requires that the insulation be placed in the wall that is part of the building's thermal envelope. If the wall is framed in front of the concrete that is where the insulation should be placed. The Code does not prohibit insulation to be placed in direct contact with the wall, but it may not be the best practice when using certain types like fiberglass.

Plastic sheeting should be avoided for use as a vapor retarder in a basement unless it is placed directly over the concrete wall and can continue over the footer under the slab. This will ensure that any condensed moisture that gets trapped behind it can run under the floor, not on top of it.

Your existing walls with plastic sheeting over the studs and under the drywall is not a correct application, but provided the space behind the framed wall is kept in open contact with the rest of the basement should not pose a problem because technically the space is not 'sealed' and will not create moisture issues.

Apart from that ceiling hights must be at least 7' high with projections from beams being no more than usually 6'8"

The biggest code issue with basements is that you must have a required Emergency Egress and Rescue Opening for every finished basement and one for every basement bedroom if any.

An approved door or window can be used but must meet all size, net opening, width, height and distances above floor requirements.

Basements without a second means of egress apart from the stairs down to them cannot be used as habitable space.

Any questions just ask.

Thank you for your thorough response homebild. As I've read through many of your replies to other postings recently and it is very apparent you are quite knowledgeable and I thank you for sharing your learnings freely.

You can use wood or metal studs for your basement finish whichever you feel more comfortable with. They're partition walls and don't support any weight so you can build them about 3/8" short so when you nail it together on the floor and then stand your wall section up it doesn't get stuck on the ceiling joists before you can get it upright and into place. Use nails or scews to fasten this wall to the bottom of the joists leaving the gap. This gap also keeps the new walls from pushing up on the next floor if the basement slab ever heaves or shifts. Use cement nails or better yet a cement nail gun (ie. Remington Power Fastener) to fasten the wall bottom plate to the cement floor.
The studs many not be able to completely touch the cement wall since there are usually imperfections that bump out. I usually plan my basment finishes with a 1/4" inch gap behind the studs.
If you use a ACQ pressure teated bottom plate for your wall make sure to buy the new fasteners that won't corroded when in contact with this new chemical treated wood.
One question to ask is how much and which type of insulation in your new walls? You're wise to go with a R-19 batt to help cut down on the cold draftiness of an uninsullated basment. Install with kraft paper facing the warm side and fasten it to the side of the stud if yoplan to use adhesive on the face of the stud when putting on your drywall. You could go with rigid foam insullation panels between furring strips but it's a lot harder to fasten wood to the cement walls than just building a stud wall.
I generally sheetrock any soffits to enclose pipes and mechanicals in the ceiling but recommend 2X2' drop ceiling tiles in the other ceiling areas to allow access to leaks and squeek that always develop down the road. This also allows for access for adding wires thru the house for computers, surround sound and intercom systems in the future. With electronics changing so fast who knows what will need to be added to homes in the future.
I don't think the plastic vapor barrier on the existing section will cause any problems since it's not exposed to the outside. You can decide if it's worth taking off the existing sheetrock to insullate that area.

Also, many people don't realize this but, check for Radon with a $15 test kit (at most hardware and home stores) before finishing your basement. Radon is widely present, deadly and mostly ignored but easy to take care of. Testing beforehand allows for better sealing and planning of the mitigation system before the walls are built. Many homes and sold contingent on radon tests as well as other inspections so it's a wise thing to do.

Homebild.....Your note on emergency egress within a finished basement.....
I have a large basement with one large emergency egress windowell (equipped with a ladder). As I finish the basement, I plan on making the room where the egress window well is into a bedroom (which is mandated by code). As long as this bedroom is accesible by doorway, does the egress window also suffice for the rest of the basement ? There is also a stairway to the main floor of the home outside the bedroom.

As was noted in a previous remark, in Ohio or any jurisdiction, you need to check for what the locally adopted code requirements are.

For sleeping rooms, there are requirements for how high the window sill can be, how big the window is (usually a percentage of the room size with usually at least a minmum size), the size of the window well.

Adding to the previous postings: One detail not to be overlooked is the code-required need to maintain service access to all plumbing shut-offs and clean-outs, and to all electrical junction boxes. This can be by means of using suspended-grid ceiling tiles, which can be removed to provide access, or by using access doors in a drywalled ceiling. Since most access doors are visually "ugly", and therefore, objectionable, I've found that using ordinary return-air grilles works well as a means of providing access, since they do not look out of place in a finished ceiling or soffit or wall. Simply face the openings between the vanes in the direction opposite the most prominant line-of-sight, and the "access door" visually disappears.

The information on basement wall framing was a big help, however, I need basement floor insulating ideas.I want a finished carpeted area that is insulated. I know of a way that uses 2x4's layed flat creating 2 foot by 8 foot cavities in which you lay 2 x 8 styrofoam insulating board that is 1-1/2 inches thick. Then lay 3/4 inch plywood over that. There also is a plastic moisture barrier laid on the concrete before you start with the 2x4's. This system gives you nailing capabilities for tack strips, etc. Is this a good way to achieve what I'm after or is there a better way? I can't see laying carpet down on concrete with glue and whatnot.

Also, need info on sound deadening the walls around my furnace room. A tv room will be next to the furnace room wall. Thnks!

There is a relatively new product available at Home Depot which consists of 2-foot square segments of OSB pressure-laminated to a polymeric substrate having an embossed waffled base. The edges are interlocking, to give a uniform top surface. The waffled polymeric base allows the non-pressure treated OSB to be used in contact with the concrete floor, since the plastic, not the wood, touches the concrete, while providing a network of open cells beneath the resulting deck surface. The product is tolerant of "normal" dampness, since the polymer constitutes an integral moisture barrier. It is even feasible to run PVC conduit, or UF cable, through the dimples, right along the concrete, from one wall to the other, to rough in your electrical needs, including audio-visual, communications, or line-voltage. Although expensive, the advantage of this product is speed, since laying this composit product accomplishes, in one step, what your method does with many steps.

As respects the furnace room, the major concerns are maintaining clearance from hot ducts, normal service access for furnace filter/oil burner filter changes, and other normal, routine maintenance by service professionals. Some municipal codes may require a sprinkler head over a furnace if within a closed space, or adjacent to normal dwelling space.

I've finished many basements in Kansas using carpeting on top of padding (get the best grade) directly on the concrete basement floor. Tack stips come with nails made for cement floors now. Unless you have a moisture problem this should be sufficient insullation from the cold concrete without the extra time and expense of the subfloor system you are considering.
You can insulate your furnace room walls to deaden the sound inexpensively. The fiberglass insulation batts commonly sold at the home stores are made for heat retension and aren't the best for sound absorption but they'll do.

Thnks Handyman,

Do you put a plastic layer under the pad, even though I don't have a moisture problem that I know of??

I could fill the furnace wall cavity with the batts and cover the interior wall surface with accoustical tile. right??

No plastic is needed under the padding if you pick the right kind of padding and you don't have a moisture problem. Ask the carpeting people for their recommendation.
Check for moisture by duct taping a piece of Saran wrap to the floor and observe for several days. If moisture develops under the plastic then you'll have to adjust for that.

You can't use combustable products close to the furnace/water heater so check with the codes people in your area on what they'd accept. Fiberglass should be okay as long as the paper face is away from the furnace side.

Chris,

Have you considered metal studs to frame your basement project? Metal stud framing is the perfert framing product for basement for a number of reasons. Steel studs are galvanized so they won't rot, mold or decay over time. They also remain perfectly straight and won't twist, shrink, split or warp. That means you won't have to worry about wall cracks and nail pops. Metal studs are available from most home centers and are relatively easy to work with. In fact, if you make a mistake simple back out he screws and start over. Steel studs are also more forgiving when cutting to length. The top and bottom track has 1 1/4" legs so you have margin for error if you cut studs short. Studs are also pre-punched so you won't have to drill holes. Here is a link to "Do It Yourself Wall Partitions" on www.dietrichmetalframing.com. http://www.dietrichindustries.com/library/pdf/dietrich%20tear%20sheet.pdf

Free free to call me at 412-281-2805 if you want to discuss further or need assistance.

Brian

I agree that metal studs are easier to work with except when it comes to trim work. With all metal studs you have to use trim head (small head) screws to fasten the doors and moldings. I've used this method to avoid that: Line the door openings with 2X4s so you have wood to nail to. For the base molding try putting scrap pieces in the bottom track to fill the space between the metal studs. That'll give something to nail the base molding to.

Fiberglass insulation can be installed without the staples if you can friction fit it on between the studs. Use 1/2 inch self tapping pan head screws to fasten the metal studs together.

Brian is also correct that if you cut the metal stud short you may still be able to use it since a gap between the top of the studs and the top track won't matter since all your basement walls are not load bearing.

There's more reasons not to use metal studs than conventional lumber as far as I'm concerned.

While metal studs used to be cheaper than wood studs, they aren't any longer and haven't been for some years. Especially as the price of steel continues to escalate, it can easily cost 2x more to frame with metal than wood.

Also, it will cost more to wire and to insulate with metal studs. Metals studs require the use of shielded electrical cable or protected romex wire, which is more expensive, and more precautions must be taken to ground the framework so it does not become electrified by faulty wiring.

Insulation for metal walls costs more than wood insulation and you can only buy it from commercial insulation suppliers. The stud-to-stud cavity distance between metal studs is greater than the distance between wood studs becuae metal studs are U-shaped. Commercial insulation only will fit in metal studs. This commercial insulation also adds to the cost.

Metal studs are also colder than wood studs and create more problems with convective heat loss than wood studs. Condensation becomes a greater issue with this temperature difference. Condensation can lead to pooling water on the floor, damaged rugs and flooring and mold and mildew growth especially if drywall is used as a wall covering.

Wood studs or plates must be used to reinforce metal studs to hang cabinets, install doors, and install baseboard, crown moldings,casings and chair rails which also adds to the cost.

Plumbing run through metal studs must be protected from dielectric union if copper pipe is used and the pipes protected from erosion against sharp metal edges if plastic pipe is used. This protection is not necessary with wood studs.

There are only 1 or 2 advantages that metal studs have over wood studs. Straightness is one and ease of cutting and installation is another. (You can cut metal studs with a tin snips and they screw together). But for all other areas wood remains vastly superior.

And despite being galvanized, metal studs will distintegrate if exposed to water or condensation and concrete over the years. I've seen metal studs in basements literally rusted away to nothing in relatively dry basements just from years of condensation or modest seepage.

Because of this, it will cost you considerably more in most cases to use metal studs, and wood will still need to be used to reinforce them in many locations...and the metal studs won't guarantee a better job for the money.

Last I priced them a metal stud was $2.99 each and you could get and economy study for about $1.50 which is really all you need for basement framing.

For these reasons it isn't practical to use them except in some limited instances in residential framing, where, for example, one may need very high and straight interior walls that conventional lumber can't provide.

For all other applications, they just add too much cost to the project to justify their use and wood ends up being the better choice on most nearly all levels.

I won't use metal studs unless specifically asked for by the customer for a basement, and after explaining all the drawbacks that will be encountered by their use.

But's it's your choice.

For me, it's still wood because metal has not proved to be better or cheaper.

Question: I'm going to finish a basement with a floating slabe type of foundation. There is a gap all the way around the space between the wall and the floor. I plan to frame away from the walls, leaving a gap, but how close to the edge of that slab can I nail my soleboards? I don't want to risk blowing out the concrete. Can I use a pnumatic hammer with .22 cal. load?

Just frame and install where you desire. The power actuated fasteners will have no effect on the concrete.

You can also try a combination of power fasteners and construction adhesive if the fasteners seem to "blow out" the concrete. That way you can reduce the number of fasteners.