I had thought I was finished with this thread, but I'd like to offer a couple of additional comments.

Southern Gal, Hypothetically: if I were to tell you that I needed the services of a 40 ton crane and that I was planning to rent one and operate it myself; what would your advice to me be? I would hope that you would point out to me that nearly 2 decades of swinging a hammer hasn't properly prepared me for the task at hand.

If my wife needed her gallbladder removed and I told you that my cousin is a thoracic surgeon who was going to "advise" me on how to do the procedure; what would your advice to me be? Again... hypothetically.

Richard has been designing projects for 40 years. I was in the trades for almost 20. The insight we offer comes from years of experience and seeing the potential pitfalls first-hand. Not out of some kind of deluded fraternal loyalty. We're not trying to convince you to help make a contractor rich, we're trying to discourage you from opening a rather large can of worms whose lid cannot be put back on.

And from what I've read, no one is suggesting that you are incapable of the task at hand, just that it's not a very good idea. In our expert opinion.

I'm sure I speak for many of the pro's on this board when I say that I wish you the best of luck with your project.

One more thing to keep in mind: a good GC will offer a solid service warranty for all aspects of your project. As your own GC, any problems that arise down the road are all on you. It's you that will have to track down the subs. It's you that will have to convince them to schedule one of their guys to come to your house at no cost to you while he still has to pay the employee. A good GC has the leverage of past and future jobs to their advantage when motivating a sub to go the extra mile. Food for thought.

As always... best of luck, whichever path you choose.

I've been reading along. I can echo about hiring relatives. My in-laws fell into that slippery bucket. Even with a list of 'what to do and when' and a documented budget, the list got creatively modified. No one was happy but it gave us something to b*tch about during the holiday season.

Good luck on your project.

I wanted to help drive home the point that being your own GC isn't as easy as it seems. The original poster of this thread is already back on the boards asking everyone's opinion about a note his architect put on the plans. He hasn't even broken ground yet and is seeking advice from contractors. Just some food for thought.

O.K. Now that a few of you think it is a "BAD IDEA" for me to be the contractor of my own house, well how about a little advice on how to make this project a success since I AM going to do it? One thing about the people in the South we tend to look on the positive side and are always glad to help (I do have "professionals" to help me if need be). I know bad things can happen but the odds are that building a house isn't going to be a disaster (Katrina, now that was a disaster). As I said before--YOU ALL had to start SOMEWHERE and if you had the advice you have given me (and you took it) I would think you surely would not be in the professions you are in now! Thank all of you for your comments and any POSITIVE advice would be Greatly Appreciated

The fallacy in your thinking is to assume that we jumped in feet first and started doing major projects from day one. Nothing could be further from the truth. Many architects, for example, start out drawing borders and title blocks for other draftsmen. We started out doing tiny little pieces, not whole projects. And bit by bit, with the help of many generous people in our careers, we advanced to where we could handle full projects. This development took years.

You will not have that luxury. You won't be able to start out building a chicken coop, and then a small addition or two or a couple of dozen, and then maybe...just maybe.,.you might be ready to tackle a small simple house. You are trying to arrive in one fell swoop where all of us took years and years to get to. That's the point we are trying to make.

I hope for your sake that you are different, but decades of experience tell me what to expect, and I've never seen it turn out otherwise. Many problems, much more time to complete, and either no savings or cost more than if a general contractor had built it, and a less than perfect result.

A general contractor, besides being a tradesman himself, is also a coordinator and a problem-solver. A good one has a solid set of subcontractors who not only respond quickly to his needs, but have become accustomed to each other and working together. A good one has assembled a team that gives him their best effort and produces a quality result. A good one knows how to keep his team running smoothly. A good one either heads off disputes before they happen, or knows how to deal with them when they do. That's what that seemingly needless 10 or 15 percent buys you, and it certainly does not mean you will have paid 10 or 15 percent more in the end. That 10 or 15 percent represents stuff that you will have to do, and your inexperience and lack of a working team means that it will take hours and hours of your time, many more than you think, and will cause the job to take weeks and weeks if not months longer to build. And if you expect to carry on a full-time job at the same time, you are possibly deluding yourself. A general contractor is available almost every minute. Will you be? When there is a dispute between subcontractors, a general contractor solves it on the spot, with little or no loss of time. Will you be available to do that?

Example: control wiring for mechanical equipment. Neither your electrician or your heating man thinks it is in their contract. How do you solve it? The people who did the joint compound and taping of your wallboard did a less than perfect job, and your painter arrives and paints the wall. How do you deal with correcting those flaws? The kitchen cabinets arrive, and your carpenter is to install them, but needs minor pieces to put them together properly. Where do those pieces come from? There is no end to examples of this type...they are issues that a general contractor faces many times a day, or better yet, knows how to negotiate his subcontracts so that they don't occur. Do you?

We all wish you the best, don't get us wrong, but we are all speaking from experience. None of us have anything to gain except possibly helping you to avoid problems. We're not selling anything or pushing anybody for the job. That should give us some credibility.

I am NOT jumping in feet first. I know what I'm getting into. Even if I only save 10 percent it will be totally worth it. I feel it will be a great accomplishment. I have gone to school(not a high school course) for drafting (I drew my own house plans)and my Dad and I built my horse barn by ourselves (except for the roof). We also remodeled every room of my mobile home (14X80, 3 bedrooms and 2 full baths). Which I bought to live in until the new house is built. It is set-up 50 feet from the site of the new home. And, yes, I know "a barn is not a house" but anybody with a brain is going to do her/his homework, have a good plan, realize the pit falls and trust their subs (if you don't, then why would you hire them!) Also I am retired so I will be here all the time. As far as TIME MANAGEMENT--I have 3 children and 9 grandchildren--I'm single and manage a home, 8 acres, horses, an active social life and in my last job it was crucial to be able to manage the people working as sub-contractors, to get the ships/barges loaded/unloaded in a safe and timely manner with all the paperwork in order. Most people can transfer innate abilities and talents to other aspects of their lives, as in jobs/professions. It seems that when someone asks for advice they don't need "professionals" telling them to forget their plans and hire a professional. Maybe they can't hire a professional for what ever reason. AND if the project falls apart and they have to hire a professional, then the professional will get paid to fix it or they have the right to turn down the job. Most people are just asking for a solution to the problem at hand, not to be told don't try--you can't do the job! Too much negativity. As I said before---I THANK and APPRECIATE anyone nice enough to give me possitive advice! Thank you Richard and I wish you all the best!

SouthernGal~ I think perhaps you are reading pessimism into what are essentially realist statements. That being said; I will impart what few kernels of advice I can think of at the moment. I have resisted doing so to this point (as I'm sure others have) because I don't want to come across as though my advice in any way suggests that I am recommending that you act as your own GC.

Go over your contracts again and again, with a fine-toothed comb until you know every page backwards and forwards. Cover every possible angle in the paperwork. The minutia that Richard alluded to in his last post are REALLY important in making sure the project runs smoothly. Be sure that you AND your subs are all on the same page about who "owns" what.

Be prepared to spend a lot less time tending your 8 acres and your horses. Be prepared to see a lot less of your grandchildren. And be prepared to kiss your social life goodbye for a while.

In my experience, trust is rarely the issue one deals with with subs. Their intentions are always good, but life happens. Emergencies on other jobs happen. Weather happens. Sick days happen.

For example, I know an electrician who will not do any of his own trenching for underground utilities. My excavator's price didn't include trenching for utilities in his site work. This wasn't caught at the signing table and both subs were under the assumption that the other was digging the trench. I had never worked with the electrician before (he was requested by the homeowner) and I was also assuming that he would be doing his own trenching as every other electrician I've worked with does. They usually like to have control over that. So we ended up with a real SNAFU. Neither was willing to do it for free (obviously) and the homeowner certainly didn't want to absorb a change-order for something that should have been foreseen.

So I ended up paying the excavator to dig the trench with me and 2 laborers assisting just to get it done in time. Where did that money come from? You got it... straight out of my "exhorbitant" 10% profit margin.

I can't stress to you enough the importance of being a constant presence on the job site. The trick is to have that presence, maintain oversight and control the flow of the job without being overbearing or acting like a babysitter. Subs hate that... it goes to the trust issue you mentioned.

As you also mentioned... saving 10 percent would be great, but what if you go over budget by 25 percent? Would it still be a great accomplishment? And what if you save 10 percent, but go over schedule by 6 months?

Construction of a new home is a very stressful time for homeowners who DO hire a GC. Very stressful. Adding the stresses of being the GC to the stresses of being the homeowner often turns out to be more than folks can bear. We would all hate to hear that you got halfway through the project and only THEN did you understand what we were talking about. This is why you are hearing what you interpret as negativity. We've seen it. It is not pretty. It is not fun. It can take years to recover financially. You might do yourself a favor by really trying to understand that side of the equation.

While we may be coming off as negative... has it occured to you that you are coming off as just plain ole stubborn? That no one is going to tell you that you can't do it. And if we tell you that you shouldn't, it only makes you want to do it more? More power to you if you are able to pull it off seamlessly... seriously. For what it's worth, look to the number of professionals who themselves say that they wouldn't GC their own project. That should give you a hint of task you are taking on.

I'm sure you CAN do it. You strike me as a very committed, hard-working person full of conviction and drive. All of which will serve you well in the endevour you're undertaking. All we're saying is that just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD.

Again... what you see as negativity, we honestly see as assistance.

One other note, just to reinforce something Richard said earlier:

He talked about Architects starting out drawing borders and title blocks for other draftsmen, only to slowly be given more responsibility as their skills improve.

The same is true on the trades-side. I started out as a 17 year old laborer on a framing crew. My earliest duties included carrying lumber to stage the job, snapping chalk lines on sheathing, wrapping up the guys tools at the end of the day and keeping the site clean. As my skills improved, I moved up. Very quickly at first (I'm a pretty motivated guy) but each step along the way took longer than the last. I was in my thirties before I was given full control over even a small project.

And I didn't want to rush it, either. By the time my ambition brought me to consider a superintendent position, I had seen over and over again how much work it is. I had seen over and over again how much money is involved and I had seen over and over again how many things can go wrong.

When you are being trusted with a persons largest single investment, you can't afford to take it lightly.

Reminds me of a time when I was Project Architect for a state job with mandated separate contracts. My plans showed a storm drainage pipe running from the building to a concrete headwall at a stream. The plumber insisted that his responsibility ended 5 feet outside the building. The site contractor had assumed the plumber would run the pipe all the way. Here I was with two angry contractors and no pipe...what did I do?

I took the two contractors out to the stream, away from everybody else, and I pointed at each of them, saying "I can make you put in the pipe, and I can make you put in the pipe, and you know what, if it comes down to that, I will have two pipes, one from each of you. Now, I'm going back to the trailer, and you two work out how my pipe will be built, and come and tell me it's all settled." And I did exactly that, and I got my pipe, and I never asked who paid for what.

cowboyGP, You seem to always make sense and I understand your concern but I don't believe THE MAJORITY of home owner contractors loose money or have disastrous results. Because SOME people have bad experiences should everyone hire contractors to build their homes? I bet you have heard stories about rip off contractors. The New Orleans area has a lot of them (I see it reported on the local news every day). I know, to get a good one---get references, check their insurance, call the BBB, see their work if possible. Sounds like the same thing that should be done when looking for a sub. Everyone has horror stories, that's life, good and bad. My main point is--How about some constructive POSITIVE advice (not just "Don't do it yourself")? Look, every day you get up and it never turns out totally the way you planned but it works out in the long run. Life is like that and I know building a house will be like that too. I realize that my life will be interrupted, a small price to pay. When I bought this property it was totally woods and I had never even owned raw land before BUT with a little GOOD positive ADVICE, planning, common sense and "a stubborn" attitude I have a wonderful piece of land and a big beautiful (stocked) pond (and not one person told me I shouldn't do it myself). Now I want to have a great house to go with it. Thank you for your comments, I look forward to more.

Got to chime in on this one. We are currently doing a project that an experianced HOME OWNER decided to sub-contract themeselves. Yes they had experiance. The owner is a engineer with several years in the building trades. The wife works as a manager for a very large firm. What they did was crunch the numbers and figured out that they could build this fairly large addition on their own. They did have the plans built as the township they live in required sealed drawings. They got all their ducks in a row with contractors suppliers etc. What they did not figure was the contractors they hired also work for builders that supply them with their major bread and butter. Weeks turned into months and nothing was getting done. Material prices began to go up and eat at what they thought was going to be the savings on the project. AS time went on damaged framing because of warping and not getting the structure enclosed and sheathed fast enough took place. More out of their pocket. That is when we came in. Of course the owners wanted it done for the price they agreed upon with the other subs. But that just did not happen. From experiance I can tell you, also as a fairly experianced contractor, you will have a lot of difficulty in getting subs, keeping the subs, and getting the subs to show up. Unless they know that in the future you will have additional work for them. All you end up being is a fill in the time project when nothing else is going on. Even if you check all the folks out for insurance references etc. These guys that have good ones often will not take on a project that a home owner is doing themself as they know it is not going to be a marrage because of their experiance working with other owners who decided to do it themself in the past. If your concerned about saving 10% or even 30% by doing it yourself. I hope you have enough cash on hand to cover that savings to complete the job. There will be cost overruns, The "I did not include that in my estimate", Weather delays, Etc.
I have been in the building trades for many years. I Still have issues getting my subs to show up. And I work with them on a fairly regular basis. You would think that my experiance would make it able for me to get these people to work for me. They just do not care. And I have to admit, there are many projets that I work on that keep getting put on the back burner because of the larger more profitable jobs that keep coming along.
If you still really want to build yourself. Do a pre-fab home. You still can have the satifaction of contracting it out yourself, but you will get the house done and the pre-fab designer and assist you in many ways.
Good Luck.

So how about the successes? I know they are out there. I don't believe that these disaster stories are in the majority. A contractor just finished a small house for my new neighbor and he had problems with the electrician and the cabinet guy, so yes a owner/contractor will more than likely have problems too. It is not fair for to you think ALL owners should not be contractors because there ARE some contractors out there that should not be contractors. Every situation is different. Weather, suppliers, delays, insurance, money or lack of, subs, different personalities, owners, contractors, health issues, transportation, families and goodness knows what else can all play a part in a project going right or going terribly wrong--thats LIFE. And Yes, I think EVERYONE gets it " if you have a contractor he has MORE pull with the subs". But I don't think that should stop an owner from contracting his own home. I know many people who did it and not one was a catastrophe. With all these doom and gloom stories ya'll have you should be able to give a lot of good (positive) advice on what to look out for. AND if I can save 10% by doing it myself thats $20,000 that I can use to upgrade something or add a little more square footage to my home (well worth it). Keep all that kindly advice coming, Thank you

If I knew of any success stories during my more than 40 years as an architect, I surely would have mentioned it. But I have seen none. Zero.
I've never seen anyone actually save money, I have universally seen such projects take months longer than they should, if in fact they ever get completed, and I have seen lots of substandard work, and lots of undesirable situations that simply have to be lived with. And I've seen a few absolute disasters, particularly the ones where the owners had to hire a contractor on an hourly basis to clean up the messes. Ask those people how much they saved.

I think everyone who tried it would agree that if they had it to do over again, they would use a general contractor. Everyone without exception vastly underestimated the amount of time and effort required, and vastly overrated their own expertise.

All I can do is share what I have seen in 40 plus years doing residential work. I'm sorry if it isn't what you want to hear.

And I seem not to be alone in my assessments. Do you think we all like being negative? People who build are generally not at all negative people. They are (and I include myself) almost all positive, hard-working, conscientious, ethical people whose "can-do" attitude is what gets them through the tight spots.

Dear Richard, Hard to believe you don't know of any owner successes but if you say so than for you it must be so. My insurance agent in Alabama just finished his home a month ago, it cost him appoximately $250,000 (about 4000 sq. ft.) and it appaised at almost $450,000. He has given me more good practical advice then any of you. The couple that owns our small neighborhood store built their home 2 years ago (no horror stories) and they gave me a list of all of their subs. They surely would not have recommended them if they did a lousy job. My neighbor/friend up the street built his home 4 years ago and he has given me the list of subs he used (again NO disasters). And then there are my parents, they have built 2 homes and again no major problems, in fact I'm using the same roofer they had. Nothing ever runs 100% smoothly but I have never EVER heard anything as bad as the stories ya'll have told. I'm sorry if you have gone all those years with nothing but negative experiences but I really belive there are more happy endings out there than you obviously have witnessed. Truly--Thank you again for your thoughts

Southern Gal~

I'm not so sure that it should come as a surprise to you that we haven't heard or seen the success stories. Why would we? The people who pull it off don't come running to us to pull their fat out of the fire when it all goes awry.

I feel safe in assuring you that the successes are the exception rather than the rule. Of course it can be done, and I'm sure you have a better chance than most of running a successful project. All I'm saying is that in many ways you are playing a game of roulette. You are putting your home and your money on the table and hoping that the ball hits your bet many times in a row. If you pick a string of winners (subs) and toss in a large dash of luck (weather, etc) chances are that you will come out ahead in the end. However, one bad spin of the wheel could send everything into a spiral that is difficult to recover from.

This isn't me being negative. Neither were my earlier points about knowing your contracts backwards and forwards, etc. A very successful entrepeneur friend of mine always says: "Contracts just make honest people remember what they said." And it will be your job to remember what you said to everyone and what they said to you. If you have to consult the contract in the middle of a job site melt-down... you are burning valuable time. It is a key aspect of being a GC. If that's not the type of constructive advice you're looking for, I'm not sure that I can help you.

What you are seeing as our negativity, we see as fair warning. Fore-warned is fore-armed as they say. Try not to look at our comments as negative, rather as they are intended.

An example: As teenagers, many of us were required to watch films with titles like "Red Asphalt" when we were preparing to take our driving tests to get our first license. These films were full of horrible, gory images of car crashes and other highway disasters. Did it stop any of us from getting our licenses? No. What it did do was give us fair warning of the responsibilities we were undertaking by earning the privledge to drive. Another commonality between that scenario and this; we thought we already knew a lot more than we did. We thought all of the warnings were just a bunch of scare-tactics. Much like you believe that your previous life experience will be enough to keep one of your subs from tending to a professional GC that he has an ongoing relationship with. It will not matter how much managerial experience you have if the guy who butters the subs bread needs him to pull his guys off your project for a few days. He will be forced by the cash-flow demands of his company to make that other GC happy.

Does this mean that you cannot succeed in your goals? Obviously not. It is simply a reality that you need to be prepared for. Being ready for it BEFORE it happens will enable you to respond more quickly and with the proper ammunition.

I'm curious to know how many of the same subs were on each of the lists you were given. I assume that all of the people you know who have GC'd their own homes live in the same general area as you? Did any of them use the same subs? What I'm getting at is that 3 recommendations for, say; a Plumber can be taken as a fairly solid recommendation. 1 recommendation each for 3 Plumbers doesn't mean squat. Am I making sense?

Any subcontractor worth his/her salt will be more than happy to provide you with a list of previous clients who have agreed to be on his/her referals list. Most good ones will have glowing testimonial letters from past customers as well. These should include addresses and phone numbers so you can contact the client directly. Referals are the lifeblood of this business, a good contractor should have no shortage of them.

Oh yeah, just to be clear, this thread isn't about sharing all of the wonderful experiences we've all had in our years in the industry. It is about homeowners acting as GC's. I have MANY more stories of jobs that went well, with satisfied customers and many happy returns than I do horror stories. If I had one of those about a project like yours, I would definitely share it with everyone here. The reason that they don't apply here should be fairly obvious. They all involve jobs that were run by a professional GC.

Final thought... be careful what you ask for, you just might get it. You asked for our opinions/advice on homeowners as GC's. The fact that our advice doesn't jibe with what you wanted to hear doesn't make it any less credible. I would never presume to tell another person what to do with their time and money, but if asked I will tell them whether I think it's a good idea or not.

As always, best of luck. I hope to see a post from you on this thread announcing the successful completion of your home and inviting us all to a housewarming party.

Hi Cowboy GP, Thank you for the advice. When the house is finished I"ll be glad to invite ya'll over and then you can also enjoy yourselves in NEW ORLEANS. I live across the lake (Ponchartrain) from there. I understand where you are coming from but I don't want to know if I SHOULD do this project, I would like to get some positive advice on things that would help make it run smoothly and not go over budget. Yes, you make sense about the subs. I have a great guy for my roofer, Son-in-law for AC/heat, plumber is neighbor, framer did next door neighbors house, nephew has a painting/trim company, best friend's husband siding, etc. The 3 subs I don't have (or know yet) is for insulation, electrician and foundation. I WILL definitely check them out thoroughly before hiring them. Thank you for taking time to help and I welcome your suggestions.

I have not heard of any success stories, but I am sure there are some out there as of course like the news you only hear of the bad stuff.
But please remember, no matter how much you plan, and no matter how many times you go over and over what your final project will turn out to be. Things always have a way of going wrong. And because nobody that your hire cares about the other trades, or your financial well being, PLEASE have a bail out plan in place, Otherwise if things turn out bad, and these things do real quick, you need an exit plan so you do not get sucked into a financial disaster and end up part of that news that we hear of all the time. Many people do all the planning to do the project but never plan on how to get out of the mess then find themselves quite often in the middle of. Be sure that your contract with the subs you hire protects you in case you decide to get out. I know my contracts that are signed by my clients are binding and I do not care if we do the job or not. We get paid regardless of the issues the owner has. So even if they decide to not complete the job and we do not get into the home to do our stuff, We get most of our money anyway.

I for one think, GO FOR IT..my advice is get what you want done in writing first. This is really important if you are hiring friends. I would put a clause in to the effect if the contrator deserts the job, or leaves it unmanned for x number of days, he or she is fired, and loses money. Spell out change order procedures. I just returned from a year and a half stint in MS helping homeowners put their hoses back together after Katrina. In LA you would be hard pressed to find a GC worth their salt who would even be able to get to your home in a year or more. If they are any good they are already booked a year out. I have been part of over 300 projects in my years in building. The biggest mistake is verbal agreements. I don't care who is who, everything needs a contract. If I were to be your manager I would charge 25/hour, but I am retired. I would think the average house would be built in four months, five tops. It would take me about an hour a day to walk the job, plus phone time. It would not be necessary to be there every day, rather every other day with competent subs and a cell phone.

I for one don't think you will have any problems. Make the inspector your friend and use him also to make sure everything is ok and up to par. Do not pay your subs their whole pay. Withhold at least 10% until the next sub is done covering the preceding sub. Hold the foundation pay until the framer checks the work, for instance. Hold the framers money until the sheetrock man checks the framing. Pay special attention to walls that will have cabinets or built ins attached. Look for bowed and crooked studs. Pay special attention to the electrical plans before the bids go out. Do not make changes after construction is started. The sheetrock finishing is very important. Make sure the corner bead is also taped to prevent cracking. Make the sheetrock finisher responsible for priming. Many defects will not show up until after priming. If you do these things I don't think you will have any trouble. Plan for the worst and expect the best. I have seen all the damage from Katrina..even Plaquemine parish down to lands end.. It is devastating, and I can say I am glad to be home, and glad I tried to be of service for the time I was there.