I thought it would be a 9 out of 10 to draw/submit my own plan for an extensive remodel. It's more like 999 out of 1,000. I'm 7 months into this and no closer to getting permit than on day 1. I've been hassled about stupid zoning things that they wouldn't dream of bugging more affluent applicant about. I have 3 grand for a water meter sitting at the water co. just in case I actually ever get a permit and then they follow thru with forcing fire sprinklers on me. At one point I was asked to post a performance bond and agree to chop out a section of my garage. I don't dare complain because I think I already am given retrobution because I dared question the authorities about these issues. Are things this bad in your town? Everyone says that they can't just make you do stuff w/o basing it on code but the reality is what can you do about it? The language of the book allows them to pretty much require anything they want. How can you push back on any of this crap? Or do we simpy have to roll over and take it?
Posts: 48 | Location: Lk For Pk WA | Registered: 19 March 2007
Zoning regs can be very tricky if you are in a sensitive area, for example near a lake. I go through this constantly here. The important thing is to know the regulations, get a copy from the zoning office and study it, when you think you know it, study it some more.
If you post some more specific issues then maybe I may be able to offer some advice. Is this a commercial building? Another thing, is this a building permit or a zoning permit? Is there a building official that governs your building location?
One thing you could do if you have know someone in the area who is a contractor or architect, talk with them and they could probably offer you a wealth of advice.
General Contractor/Home Builder
Posts: 291 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: 15 January 2007
Zoning problem is simple. Garage is into 5' side yd setback. Makes everything non-conforming. I turned in bids to stay under 50% that you can increase a "non-conforming" building. Don't have a ruling on that yet - person is not in office (Ill?-who knows) I have tried to hire various locals. NONE have known anything about these particulars. "wealth of advise" has been, forget what YOU want to do and drastically shrink your plan because its not worth fighting for what you want. This is a remodel SFD under 2003 IRC. Total IF built would be less than 2,600 Sq Ft so its not extravagant Mc Mansion. There are NO special cercumstances like wet lands/hillsides or anything. Simple rectangular flat lot in a 1950's platted long established neighborhood. I have a bldg. permit app# and plan is on second review. I can't get ahold of the guy to even ask what his latest corrections mean. The BO is a one man operation so I can't try to side step and get answers from another person. All Bldg. & Zoning inquires are just reffered to this one person. I guess I have to just wait and have my engineer call on Monday. As far as I can tell priority 1 is protecting trees. If you have a 28" dia. tree they can turn it into a city park. Priority 2 is letting affluent lake front homeowners ignore every zoning law on the books to build out their lots with the absolute largest McMansion possible.
Posts: 48 | Location: Lk For Pk WA | Registered: 19 March 2007
Two rules for dealing with people like building officials:
1. Do their work for them. 2. Humble yourself before them.
It sounds like you are doing neither.
Complete professional plans make the building official's job easy. Home-drawn plans can vary in quality and presentation of information from almost like cartoons, to disorganized chaos, to something perhaps approaching the quality of professional plans. Most of them are incomplete, incorrect, and make the building official's job very difficult. They do not have days to examine plans...there is a whole stack on their desk waiting to be done. If they cannot find what they need to see quickly and clearly, they understandably become frustrated, and you will pay the price for that. Perhaps you are discovering that the couple of thousand dollars you saved on plans wasn't the bargain you thought it was. Good professionally-drawn plans more than save whatever they cost to prepare, always.
When given objections by a building official, the best approach is to state that "I want nothing BUT to comply with the building code, and would you kindly quote the code chapter and verse for me, so I can read and understand it and conform to the code." The above stated calmly in a quiet voice, with no hint of negativism. If the official fails to quote the code, then you may quietly and calmly say that "I am not required by code to do that, then, am I correct?". You will never win an argument, so it makes no sense to start one.
With all that in mind, good luck.
Architect (NY) and Home Designer (PA)
Posts: 2509 | Location: Tobyhanna, PA | Registered: 24 October 2005
Sounds like you have a zoning issue, not a building code issue. I'm not sure about where you are but around here they are sticklers when it comes to setbacks and you'd better have a darn good reason as to why you need to encroach on them. Usually involves a variance hearing and presenting your case to a board of adjustment or planning commission and being able to prove a hardship as to why you feel this needs to be done. You also have to prove that the hardship wasn't caused by you in the first place. I sincerely hope your jurisdiction is a little more lenient when it comes to these things than mine because I've argued quite a few and lost. I've found the most effective ways to get what you want is to offer a trade-off. Meaning if you let me encroach on this setback, then I'll reduce my impermeable surface. (Or something like that) Best of luck.
General Contractor/Home Builder
Posts: 291 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: 15 January 2007
The zoning issue seems to center around an existing garage which encroaches on a setback, making the entire house non-conforming. There is apparently a zoning regulation that limits any addition to such a non-conforming building to 50% of its value. Apparently the Owner has submitted bids to document the cost of his addition, and apparently the building official hasn't yet agreed with the submission. My guess is that the form of submission is not clear and concise. Perhaps the value of the existing house is not documented. Who knows?
Architect (NY) and Home Designer (PA)
Posts: 2509 | Location: Tobyhanna, PA | Registered: 24 October 2005
Ahh, now I get it. Took me awhile but I'm catching up.. In that case, I agree with Richard that the documentation you submitted may not be clear or complete. The fact that they asked you to chop off the nonconforming part of your garage reinforces this. If necessary you may need to have an appraisal done of your property to convince zoning of its value. Tell them that you will submit a signed affidavit of the construction cost, along with the contractors bid proving that it's less than 50%. That should be plenty of documentation for them to issue you a permit. If not, then something is wrong. Even though this is a one man zoning office I can't believe that there isn't some form of appeal board you can present your case to. I know in some states, it's a law that if you have zoning laws then you need to have an appeal board.
General Contractor/Home Builder
Posts: 291 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: 15 January 2007
My appraisal has been agreed to by the city. I have not been able to get an answer about my 3 licensed contractor bids. Planner is either Ill, Vacation, Quit, Fired - who knows.
Since no one will answer my email or phone calls its hard to know. I hesitate to go in person w/o an appt. because that doesn't make them happy either.
I hope my engineer will be able to get some answers Monday (wasn't available this week unfortunately)
email me if you want to laugh at my plans. I'll send the PDF. n.haynes@comcast.net
Posts: 48 | Location: Lk For Pk WA | Registered: 19 March 2007
Since you are 7 months into this, it sounds like its time to stop being the nice guy and go in there. Forget about worrying if you will upset them or not, tell them that since you aren't getting any response to your inquiries then walking in was the next logical step. Just go in, be polite and go from there. Take it from someone who has been there...repeatedly.
General Contractor/Home Builder
Posts: 291 | Location: Minnesota | Registered: 15 January 2007
I went out to get some heavy exersise this am and when I returned I had an email saying city planning & "drainage" had approved my plans! Hopefully my engineer can work things out Monday on the framing corrections. Sorry for freakin' out. My neighbor who is a PE keeps telling me I'm lucky to get a response in 3-4 weeks and I keep forgetting that fact.
Thanks for advice everyone.
Posts: 48 | Location: Lk For Pk WA | Registered: 19 March 2007